Sound Devices wishlist

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

It's a shame that just as SD release a new recorder (788T) there is a wishlist thread, and yearning for a config that doesn't exist (766).

Tell us what is great about it, as well.

Top flight recorder, great preamps, really small, built in functionality that meets the needs of most location production sound mixers, which is why it dominates the market. This is a thread about wish lists and flaws, so I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to bash the unit. I think it is great and only wish to provide my feedback in ways that I think it can be made better. I am a former SD user myself and may be one in the future when and if I ever need to replace or augment my recorder.

[aracu]

"It's a shame that just as SD release a new recorder (788T) there is a wishlist thread, and yearning for a config that doesn't exist (766)."

Gearslut syndrome!

"Tell us what is great about it, as well."

Great sound, lots of channels and configurations.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by boojum

MP - When the 788T first came out I was able to run the machine from a 722! SD walked me through it. There may have been an SPDIF cable in the deal, too. That may have stopped with a firmware update. I will dink around and see if I can get it to work. Joe, I think it was, at SD made sure I used the 722 as master and the 788 as slave. If I can get it to work I will let you guys know. I know it worked for me. I was thrilled to death. I am pretty sure I could not daisy chain the other 722 into the deal, though. Maybe 722 > 722 > 788???


Might there also be a way to wire up a CL-1 for just the tap(s) needed and bypass the SD $150 for the full breakout cable?

an update ...

So, I just tried the CL-1 connected to the XL-88 breakout cable and the results were less than satisfactory. I could get both recorders (744T & 788T) into record mode simultaneously but the switch only stops one of them. I just sent the CL-1 back. The C-Link method will apparently be provided in a future release of firmware. SD says "it is on the list."

In the meantime I'm going to link them via timecode and wordclock so that one sends timecode only when recording and the other only records when it receives timecode. The cable for this is $75 and it'll at least work until the C-Link code finally becomes available.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

an update ...

So, I just tried the CL-1 connected to the XL-88 breakout cable and the results were less than satisfactory. I could get both recorders (744T & 788T) into record mode simultaneously but the switch only stops one of them. I just sent the CL-1 back. The C-Link method will apparently be provided in a future release of firmware. SD says "it is on the list."

In the meantime I'm going to link them via timecode and wordclock so that one sends timecode only when recording and the other only records when it receives timecode. The cable for this is $75 and it'll at least work until the C-Link code finally becomes available.

MP - Let me tinker with mine tonight. I know I had it starting and stopping when I first got the recorder. I talked with one of the tech types at SD and he walked me through it. So it did work at one time. And the 722 was the master. The tech explained that to me but I have forgotten why. I hope I find something more than frustration.

Cheers

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by boojum

MP - Let me tinker with mine tonight. I know I had it starting and stopping when I first got the recorder. I talked with one of the tech types at SD and he walked me through it. So it did work at one time. And the 722 was the master. The tech explained that to me but I have forgotten why. I hope I find something more than frustration.

Cheers

I look forward to your findings regardless what they are. It's funny because I thought I had it going OK myself, then when I came back a few days later to do it again things went south. I love the recorders, and SD eventually gets about everything right. Their MO is to put out the hardware and then enable/fix things in subsequent firmware releases. At least we know it'll only get better, right?

[boojum]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I look forward to your findings regardless what they are. It's funny because I thought I had it going OK myself, then when I came back a few days later to do it again things went south. I love the recorders, and SD eventually gets about everything right. Their MO is to put out the hardware and then enable/fix things in subsequent firmware releases. At least we know it'll only get better, right?

So long ago in the software/firmware cycle. The 7nn series all can be C-linked now over the RS-232 cable (phone line and connectors).

I am bumping this just to check if there are any SD owners who are experiencing hardware/firmware glitches or glitches with external drives, USB/Firewire connections or the like.

I had a series of Kernel Exceptions in the OS on my 788T. I could not reproduce them and the factory could not either. So they replaced the motherboard and the machine has been faultless again. The machine was a year out of warranty. The replacement was courtesy of SD. They did not have to extend that kind of support. I am grateful that they did. I appreciate what they do to stand behind what they sell. Motherboard failure notwithstanding, the damned thing is as rugged as an AK-47. And a lot more legal and a lot less lethal.

So, any nosebleeds with SD out there we can share???

[9sbean]

Originally Posted by boojum

So long ago in the software/firmware cycle. The 7nn series all can be C-linked now over the RS-232 cable (phone line and connectors).

I am bumping this just to check if there are any SD owners who are experiencing hardware/firmware glitches or glitches with external drives, USB/Firewire connections or the like.

I had a series of Kernel Exceptions in the OS on my 788T. I could not reproduce them and the factory could not either. So they replaced the motherboard and the machine has been faultless again. The machine was a year out of warranty. The replacement was courtesy of SD. They did not have to extend that kind of support. I am grateful that they did. I appreciate what they do to stand behind what they sell. Motherboard failure notwithstanding, the damned thing is as rugged as an AK-47. And a lot more legal and a lot less lethal.

So, any nosebleeds with SD out there we can share???

I also had Kernel Exceptions on my 722 recently. There was something wrong with my 722 earlier highly possible a bad contact between the main board and the XL-SATA adapter. When the problem shows, level meters goes to full, all the data on all the media and the analog output are ruined. It happened during a recording session, furtunately enough, it wasn't a live concert as I can re-take.

It was so scary that now I have to setup double system for backup. I did plan to get a 788 later, but... is there anything else that is even more reliable? (I really like Nagra 6 as well, but only 4 pre! Maybe Nagra 8 on the roadmap?)

I wish there is another input layout version of 788 that uses 4 XLR-5 instead of XLR-3. Because my main cable are Schoeps stereo 5-pin and I need adapter cable at the recorder end.

[Arthur Stone]

The 702 is near perfect: if I could set up a send/return from the monitored signal to the record input
(S/PDIF in>analogue monitor out>'analogue outboard'>analogue in>record file)
then that would be dandy.

Please, someone, tell me it's possible...

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by Arthur Stone

The 702 is near perfect: if I could set up a send/return from the monitored signal to the record input
(S/PDIF in>analogue monitor out>'analogue outboard'>analogue in>record file)
then that would be dandy.

Please, someone, tell me it's possible...

You can do that with a 744T. Not with w/ 2 channel machine. Why would you want to? Oh, outboard processor? It is an acquisition device. You could send analog out > processor > another recorder.

L

[Arthur Stone]

Originally Posted by loujudson

You can do that with a 744T. Not with w/ 2 channel machine. Why would you want to? Oh, outboard processor? It is an acquisition device. You could send analog out > processor > another recorder.

L

Thanks Lou......I may have to go for another SD recorder. At the moment I'm looking to go out from the DAW to a BAE1073mpf (more boxes eventually) and then to recorder/DAW. I do some location recording so another linkable SD would come in very handy.
Currently my other A/D options are Yamaha 01X, Focusrite Pro24, or the A/D on a Lexicon MPX110...or the 01X and Pro24 as D/A's and the SD702 as a A/D...but I've got used to the SD quality now.stike

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by Arthur Stone

Thanks Lou......I may have to go for another SD recorder. At the moment I'm looking to go out from the DAW to a BAE1073mpf (more boxes eventually) and then to recorder/DAW. I do some location recording so another linkable SD would come in very handy.
Currently my other A/D options are Yamaha 01X, Focusrite Pro24, or the A/D on a Lexicon MPX110...or the 01X and Pro24 as D/A's and the SD702 as a A/D...but I've got used to the SD quality now.stike

Okay, I get it. I once bought a TC M-one for its A/D - then got the SD a few months later and never looed back. I would NOT use a late model cheap MPX Lex for A/D (or anything else, frankly) and I totally understand the SD difference - the 744 is my superior A/D and one of the best pres. With a 744 you could use the pres on one pair and send analog out > line in on 3&4... or another 702 would give more flexibility.

L

[boojum]

Originally Posted by 9sbean

I also had Kernel Exceptions on my 722 recently. There was something wrong with my 722 earlier highly possible a bad contact between the main board and the XL-SATA adapter. When the problem shows, level meters goes to full, all the data on all the media and the analog output are ruined. It happened during a recording session, furtunately enough, it wasn't a live concert as I can re-take.

It was so scary that now I have to setup double system for backup. I did plan to get a 788 later, but... is there anything else that is even more reliable? (I really like Nagra 6 as well, but only 4 pre! Maybe Nagra 8 on the roadmap?)

I wish there is another input layout version of 788 that uses 4 XLR-5 instead of XLR-3. Because my main cable are Schoeps stereo 5-pin and I need adapter cable at the recorder end.

I also have a pair of 722's which have been fine. The KE's I was getting were news to SD. In the cases where I got one the machine would freeze and the meters were frozen, too. A reboot would start the machine again but I was not happy. I did a gig of the Mendelssohn Elijah with a 722 while the 788 was away. They are both fine machines. The Elijah turned out well. It is not a commercial release. It is the best recording the chorale has had, ever. It may be the best recording I have done so far. It is a learning process for me. After two years of serious recording I think I am doing alright. BMG is not calling. I did not expect them to. I am just trying to perfect what I do and do not expect it ever to be perfect.

Cheers

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

I would actually like to see a 766t.

CONNECTIONS
6 full size XLR inputs, would mean the unit is slightly deeper than the 788t.
6 mic preamps, switchable to line input, 48v phantom (no T)
6 direct out + stereo mix + WC I/O on DB-25 switchable between balanced analog and AES
Stereo unbalanced Tape output on TA3
Stereo balanced output on full size XLR
IFB output on balanced TA3
Private line output on balanced TA3
TC I/O on Lemo-5
FW/USB for keyboard, PC link, DVD burners, etc...
1/4" headphone output with pot
CF or dual CF slot

FRONT PANEL
6 gain / trim pots (single row across, not two like the 788t)
maybe get rid of the LED ring and make it a dual concentric pot for gain and mix
Nagra style hardware monitoring switched (enable/solo + LCR)
all other menu / displays / buttons the same
keep 8 sets of LED meters, 1 for each input channel and a pair for main mix out
signal/clip LED for IFB out
signal/clip LED for private line out

I firmly believe that any location recorder that I use for non-reality TV based shoots should be 8 tracks, no more, no less. 6 ISO + 2 MIX. The main problem that I have with my existing recorder is that I can do 6 ISO, 5 ISO + 1 MIX, or 4 ISO + 2 MIX, but unlike the Zaxcom, Cantar, and Sound Devices 788t, it sacrifices input tracks when recording a mix, so can never record more than 6 tracks. Although I don't need something as small as the 788t, it would be nice to have something a bit more compact. The above unit would be perfect for OTS use. For cart use, an accessory panel mixer that had 6 linear 100mm faders, IFB send, PL send, pan, mute, solo, input trim (these override the main unit controls) and units should be able to be linked so that one could use dual 766t for situations that required more tracks (reality TV). A master section with master fader, IFB and PL main level, talkback, TC display, numeric keypad, maybe build in the DVD burner accessory into it too... all would be cool stuff and make me seriously consider jumping ship.

There are just too many ergonomic issues with the 788t that would make it hard for me to convert over. I'm not saying that any one way is better or worse than another, it comes down to personal preference based upon what we have learned to use and become accustomed to over time. Sound Devices has a little bit too much buried in menus for my personal taste. Although the CL8 accessory does address some of these, I understand it is slow and seems a bit awkward to use. Having a mixer in the bag is less important for me and I'd rather see a single unit that had the controls all laid out like I want rather than strapping extra controls right onto the box... save the accessory mixer for cart users and make it a panel format.

Looks to me like a beefed up Nagra VI version (to be made by Sounddevices in the US).
Better ask Nagra to do this!

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Arthur Stone

The 702 is near perfect: if I could set up a send/return from the monitored signal to the record input
(S/PDIF in>analogue monitor out>'analogue outboard'>analogue in>record file)
then that would be dandy.

Please, someone, tell me it's possible...

Originally Posted by loujudson

You can do that with a 744T. Not with w/ 2 channel machine. Why would you want to? Oh, outboard processor? It is an acquisition device. You could send analog out > processor > another recorder.

L

Well, I think you can. You need to set the analogue output source to mirror the SPDIF INPUTS (not TRACKS), and route the Analogue In to the tracks as usual.

[Arthur Stone]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

Well, I think you can. You need to set the analogue output source to mirror the SPDIF INPUTS (not TRACKS), and route the Analogue In to the tracks as usual.

Thanks so much ...I'm going to give it another try. Previously I spent some time with flowcharts trying to figure it out but I was worried about digital feedback. All I need now are some TA3 connectors. Thanks again!!! thumbsup

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by meltemi

Looks to me like a beefed up Nagra VI version (to be made by Sounddevices in the US).
Better ask Nagra to do this!

we would love to- but I dont think most people are willing to pay 15 thousand dollars for the resulting machine though.

Sound Devices makes excellent gear- and they are the defacto standard for digital production audio recorders in the US (with Zaxcom)

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by boojum

So long ago in the software/firmware cycle. The 7nn series all can be C-linked now over the RS-232 cable (phone line and connectors).

I am bumping this just to check if there are any SD owners who are experiencing hardware/firmware glitches or glitches with external drives, USB/Firewire connections or the like.

I had a series of Kernel Exceptions in the OS on my 788T. I could not reproduce them and the factory could not either. So they replaced the motherboard and the machine has been faultless again. The machine was a year out of warranty. The replacement was courtesy of SD. They did not have to extend that kind of support. I am grateful that they did. I appreciate what they do to stand behind what they sell. Motherboard failure notwithstanding, the damned thing is as rugged as an AK-47. And a lot more legal and a lot less lethal.

So, any nosebleeds with SD out there we can share???

I still have not had a trouble free experience c-linking more than two 744t's-

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I still have not had a trouble free experience c-linking more than two 744t's-

Yea, I think those were rather rare hardware issues.

C-linking should work fine for all the 7xx recorders. The 788T, though, has a different input topology that results in a relative delay in the PCM that's written to the media, but it only affects that model and Sound Devices published a delay chart so we can align those files in post with those from other c-linked 7xx recorders.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Yea, I think those were rather rare hardware issues.

C-linking should work fine for all the 7xx recorders. The 788T, though, has a different input topology that results in a relative delay in the PCM that's written to the media, but it only affects that model and Sound Devices published a delay chart so we can align those files in post with those from other c-linked 7xx recorders.

that isnt the problem I have had- when c-linking 3 or more than two machines, I have had the 3rd machine consistently not write the sample buffer to disk normally- resulting in audio dropouts and the files being out of sync. It has happened rather consistently for the last 2 years. This is with 744T's btw, not the 788.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I still have not had a trouble free experience c-linking more than two 744t's-

1) Smug answer: buy a 788T or two.

2) Adult answer: has SD done anything to help you with this?

I have had good luck with SD support but I rarely have a sophisticated problem such as link 3+ 744T's together. Do you not need the time-code (SPDIF) cable in addition to the C-link for that? I really should say nothing as that is all I know on this, nothing. ;o)

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by boojum

1) Smug answer: buy a 788T or two.

2) Adult answer: has SD done anything to help you with this?

I have had good luck with SD support but I rarely have a sophisticated problem such as link 3+ 744T's together. Do you not need the time-code (SPDIF) cable in addition to the C-link for that? I really should say nothing as that is all I know on this. ;o)

smug response- no limiters on the 788 at 96k makes it a no-go.

I am running tc via the ambient cables to all machines-

I rent these from Coffey Sound in LA, so they are all at current revision. They have not been able to offer a solution thus far. A possible solution is just using tc to slave, which I will try on my next outing.

I typical use 3 to 4 744's in a feild job, but have gone up to 5 on one project.

[boojum]

^^^^^ Man, you working guys really get into some weird stuff. Being a tyro has its benefits. As deep as you are into it and where and with whom you are working, if there were a way to shoot this bug you'd have found it by now. I guess you have banged on SD's door to no avail.

Hopefully the propeller heads at SD are following this thread.

Good luck, out there in the dirt.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by boojum

^^^^^ Man, you working guys really get into some weird stuff. Being a tyro has its benefits. As deep as you are into it and where and with whom you are working, if there were a way to shoot this bug you'd have found it by now. I guess you have banged on SD's door to no avail.

Hopefully the propeller heads at SD are following this thread.

Good luck, out there in the dirt.

thanks- I love the machines btw- I think I am just a tiny speck in the user base-

[Antti P]

Two wishes that would make me sell a lot of gear to buy a 788.

-possibility to overdub with the 788. This would make it a killer on the go multitrack machine.

-possibility to use 788 as a FW soundcard. Mac support would be enough for me but im sure Windows people would appreciate it too.

I know these are not gonna happen soon, if ever, but..

-Antti

[boojum]

Guys, keep posting those wishes. The cheese heads at the SD factory may run out of ideas for new bells and whistles. Hopefully Tatooles and Tomarras follow this board, forum and thread. From my perspective SD has been pretty attuned to needs in the recordist community and has delivered a series of machines which work very well, are rugged and well supported.

So no matter what you think would be a good tweak, even if it seems totally off the wall, post it. You may be speaking for lots of other folks who did not post. And maybe those folks out in Reedsburg will include some of the suggestions down the line. And it is interesting to see just what other folks are thinking. Some folks here have apps which require really sophisticated firmware and would like it even more sophisticated. There is the one fellow who would love to be able to chain 3+ 744T's together and not have dropouts. SD, are you listening?

[Arthur Stone]

OK - wishlist:
1/ tough AMOLED (or similar) screen with some colour-coded menus, perhaps linked to multi-coloured button functions

2/ isonchronous data transfer via Firewire (/USB3?)

3/ speech-to-text file naming

4/ more leeway with custom presets (or optionally downloadable presets)

5/ upgrade/re-design of power connector

6/ timed start

That's it! Had a good think on this but the units near perfect as can be, few things I've purchased have impressed me as much as the 702...definitely a design classic!

[pkautzsch]

As stated in another thread, I have two concerns with the 7 series recorders.

- the Load Factory Settings menu should be protected against accidental activation. Could be similar to Formatting Drives: asking "Sure?" and needing two buttons. The way it works now, it IS possible to accidentally reset a recorder by entering the menu and too quickly grabbing the scroll button on the right side panel (or moving slightly with the bag accidentally pressing the scroll button)

- A direct shortcut to the "Scene Name" menu would be nice, as this is accessed quite often (more often than, say, to toggle phantom power)

[boojum]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

As stated in another thread, I have two concerns with the 7 series recorders.

- the Load Factory Settings menu should be protected against accidental activation. Could be similar to Formatting Drives: asking "Sure?" and needing two buttons. The way it works now, it IS possible to accidentally reset a recorder by entering the menu and too quickly grabbing the scroll button on the right side panel (or moving slightly with the bag accidentally pressing the scroll button)

- A direct shortcut to the "Scene Name" menu would be nice, as this is accessed quite often (more often than, say, to toggle phantom power)

That "Factory Reset" check is a great idea. And, it is easy to incorporate. Just a few lines of code for that one.

[Arthur Stone]

+ sound-activated record function

[mmayer]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

smug response- no limiters on the 788 at 96k makes it a no-go.

I am running tc via the ambient cables to all machines-

I rent these from Coffey Sound in LA, so they are all at current revision. They have not been able to offer a solution thus far. A possible solution is just using tc to slave, which I will try on my next outing.

I typical use 3 to 4 744's in a feild job, but have gone up to 5 on one project.

Try running a wordclock cable from the first machine to the third.