Questions on a recent concert

[jnorman]

I just went to nice flute/piano concert thursday night at Hudson Hall on Willamette University campus, performed by Sarah Tiedeman and Elise Yun. Hudson Hall is new buidling, and the auditorium is medium sized with a large stage. Lots of money was thrown at acoustic design, with acoustic curtains, diffusion, very high ceiling. piano was an 8-8.5 ft steinway on short stick.

First, the steinway was a bit unsettling for me in terms of sound - I am used to working with my accompanist's 7'4" Bosendorfer. compared to the bosendorfer, the steinway was very jangly sounding in the upper registers, whereas the bosendorfer is so smooth and mellow in the top end. Is that common for steinway's?

Also, when the flute was playing in its low register, the piano completely buried the flute, even on short stick and the flutist is quite strong. and the pianist was one of the best i have ever heard. why do you think they had that problem, and what should have been done to correct it?

Then there was the hall reverb. Due to the large woooden stage backed by very high concrete block walls, and lots of damping out in the hall, the reverb took on a rather odd character. the initial reverb sounded quite large, but the tail was very short, like 0.5 sec or shorter, almost like it was gated. at first i thought it sounded quite good, but by the end of the concert, i started feeling that it did not sound natural for some reason. Is this type of acoustic design the contemporary way for halls to sound now? are acoustic deisgners moving away from creating the kind of very live, long reverbs common to older halls, cathedrals, etc? what are your thoughts on using a big reverb with a short tail?

[fifthcircle]

1. Piano- a Steinway will almost always have a brighter sound than a Bosendorfer. That being said, I've recorded plent of great pianos and plenty that suck. This instrument may be on the other end of the spectrum

2. Low stick? Sigh... When will pianists learn that they control the level. Lowering the lid will muffle the top end of the instrument but it will NOT make it quieter. If the instrument was too lound for the lower end of the flute, than that is a performance issue. Either the flutist needs to play out or the piano needs to lay back.

3. Adjustable acoustics. Sometimes good and sometimes not... I work in some halls where that has been worked to perfection and others where it hasn't. When it doesn't work, you get exactly what you describe. In that case, the better settings in halls like this are usually the live settings. On the flip side, I work in some halls that have great adjustable acoustics and they really help out the sound for different styles of music.

--Ben

[BrianHanke]

Every piano sounds different, although Steinways do usually have a recognizable midrange tone. The sound of a particular instrument has more to do with the voicing and the player than with the brand.

Balancing a concert grand with a flute playing in the low range is very difficult. The pianist has to play extremely softly for it to work at all. I know from personal experience!

In general I'm down on contemporary concert halls designed by acousticians. One of the best-sounding concerts I ever attended was in Vienna in a 19th-century space that basically just amounted to a large shoebox with wood floors (I can't recall the name of the hall, but it wasn't one of the major venues). Disney Hall here in LA is lauded for how great it supposedly sounds, but I just don't get it. Orchestras sound clinical and detached in there, and chamber music recitals come across like they're being played from a far-away mono speaker with a ton of tubby reverb coming from all directions. I've heard a lot of criticism from musicians that it's not ideal on stage either - apparently everything sounds extremely dry.

[klaukholm]

I agree with Ben on the lid.
The lid when closed is no softer, just more muffled.
In fact, I prefer the lid off altogether or up all the way.
No lid makes it project less.

That being said, any sensitive accompanist should know to get out of the way of the flute, particularly when in the low register.
If the pianist did not get out of the way, then the pianist was not a good pianist or certainly not a good accompanist.

[Corran]

Perhaps the pianist wasn't used to the instrument/hall so that caused the balance issue. I certainly know the problem well though. Projecting the low register is the hardest thing on the flute! And some instruments are worse about it than others. Also if the instrument is not in 100% good repair, it makes it even worse.

[rumleymusic]

2. Low stick? Sigh... When will pianists learn that they control the level. Lowering the lid will muffle the top end of the instrument but it will NOT make it quieter. If the instrument was too lound for the lower end of the flute, than that is a performance issue. Either the flutist needs to play out or the piano needs to lay back.

Thank you! I'm glad I am not the only one who thinks that.

I have heard some pretty bad Steinways. The newer models are great, but with age and lack of service, any great piano will begin to take on some bad characteristics. I just went to the steinway dealer yesterday and tinkered with a few vintage models. They had a very unpleasent twang in comparison the the newer models.

If the pianist drowned out the flutist, that is 100% the pianist's fault. I know it is nearly impossible for a flute to be loud and low at the same time, but a good accompanist should know how to compensate for that. I say that as an piano player and the husband of a professional flutist.

Also if the instrument is not in 100% good repair, it makes it even worse

I guess if the mechanisms are old, a soft touch on the piano might be difficult, so maybe it is 80% pianist and 20% piano

[Corran]

I mean if the flute is out of repair (leaking), it's harder to project in the low register.

My flute right now needs to be repadded but that will be over $1,000 so I'm not looking forward to that.