Choral Recording (Help)

[JSheltonLogic]

So here is the issue, I have never done a choir recording and I am recording one on Thursday, I figure this is going to a bit of a hit or miss situation and I am not too concerned however...I have not a clue what to do. I don't know where to put the mics, what mics to use..etc...luckily, I am in school so it doesn't matter if I fold at least I will be learning.

Here is what I do know, The rest I will figure out tomorrow when I see them rehearse....

Large Choir in an arc around a piano with the piano lid full mast facing the audience.

I have a stereo bar flying over the stage with KM 184's ORTF and Omni Flanks MKH20 (sennheiser)

Other mics I have access to are Schoeps MK2h's, AKG 414's and Sennheiser MKH800's.

I figure choirs like a more reverberant sound. so I thought I might use the Schoeps in place of the 184's only spaced instead of ORTF.... ?

I really don't know...

help please?

[JSheltonLogic]

maybe post pictures of your choir recordings?

[boojum]

Assuming that the director will get the chorale and piano balanced <sigh> I would find the sweet spot for the best omni's and run them AB for the chorale and spot the piano with card's "just in case" you need some more piano than you would get in the omni AB. Running a pair of cards additionally as ORTF is a good idea, too. You can choose which is better or blend the ORTF and omni's.

Eargle was a big fan of ORTF centered with omni flankers at more than the midpoint away from the ORTF pair. But check his reference book to make sure.

If you have not found the sweet spot before, what I do is walk the hall with one ear cupped until I find a "best" spot. Then I hook up the mics through my recorder and move the mic stand until I find the best best. That failing, centered back ~6" and 12 - 15' high pointed down towards the chorale. This is the textbook spot.

You have some great gear. All you need is a good spot. What I have suggested works for me in my chorale recordings. The real experts will add their experience, so this thread will only get better.

[JSheltonLogic]

thank you so much. I will let you know how it turns out. I was over thinking it. Simple is really the way to go.

Thank you.

[Audiop]

How many channels (preamps, converters) do have?

If no time for adjustments I'd use two main pairs, one card and one omni pair. I'd also use wide positioned flanks and a spot (or two) on the piano.


/Peter

[RickZ]

I've recently been using a 3rd cardioid(KM184) aimed straight ahead, with an ORTF-like pair, finding that this gives a nicer coverage of a choir or organ depending upon the situation. When recording organ, I also use one KM183 omni, to capture lowest bass.

FWIW,
Rick Z

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by RickZ

I've recently been using a 3rd cardioid(KM184) aimed straight ahead, with an ORTF-like pair, finding that this gives a nicer coverage of a choir or organ depending upon the situation. When recording organ, I also use one KM183 omni, to capture lowest bass.

FWIW,
Rick Z

Where did you get the mounting bar from?

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by RickZ

I've recently been using a 3rd cardioid(KM184) aimed straight ahead, with an ORTF-like pair, finding that this gives a nicer coverage of a choir or organ depending upon the situation. When recording organ, I also use one KM183 omni, to capture lowest bass.

Interesting looking setup. Do you usually mix all three mics at the same level, or does the center usually get mixed in differently? Can you post a clip that used this setup?

Cheers,
Mike

[RickZ]

Mike/Larry,

The mic holders were made for me by a local machine shop, out of 1/4" aluminum plate. I had to buy the 5/8-17 tap, as our 'std' mic thread is not standard to most of his work. At one time I was experimenting with 5.1 (6 mics) recording, via RME Multiface II into notebook computer, that's why the odd shaped holder has extra holes.

Lately I've been using the 4 mics shown, connected to Korg MR-1000's. They are not electrically sync'd, but I've found that they drift very little, and once I have the waveforms lined up in Samplitude on one piece, it's usually good all the way through. I record the L/R mics on one MR-1000, and the center and LFE on the other MR-1000. I use Audiogate to convert the 5.8MHz data to 88.2/32BitFloat, then batch SF tool to convert the Cent/LFE file into separate mono C and LFE files. Bringing these into Samplitude Master, I can adjust relative level for best sound. Then bounce out to final stereo one piece at a time.

The sound clips are from 2 very different organs, and in the case of the larger venue, there was an English Horn player seated to the left of the organ console. The center mic, even from that far back was helpful in making her sound more clearly in the center, to my ears.

The small organ is a tiny 1 manual Jardine organ built in 1869.

FWIW,
Rick Z

[mljung]

Originally Posted by RickZ

Mike/Larry,

The mic holders were made for me by a local machine shop, out of 1/4" aluminum plate. I had to buy the 5/8-17 tap, as our 'std' mic thread is not standard to most of his work. At one time I was experimenting with 5.1 (6 mics) recording, via RME Multiface II into notebook computer, that's why the odd shaped holder has extra holes.

Lately I've been using the 4 mics shown, connected to Korg MR-1000's. They are not electrically sync'd, but I've found that they drift very little, and once I have the waveforms lined up in Samplitude on one piece, it's usually good all the way through. I record the L/R mics on one MR-1000, and the center and LFE on the other MR-1000. I use Audiogate to convert the 5.8MHz data to 88.2/32BitFloat, then batch SF tool to convert the Cent/LFE file into separate mono C and LFE files. Bringing these into Samplitude Master, I can adjust relative level for best sound. Then bounce out to final stereo one piece at a time.

The sound clips are from 2 very different organs, and in the case of the larger venue, there was an English Horn player seated to the left of the organ console. The center mic, even from that far back was helpful in making her sound more clearly in the center, to my ears.

The small organ is a tiny 1 manual Jardine organ built in 1869.

FWIW,
Rick Z

I really like the Hampton clip very much [I often use a LCR setup myself ]
I really like a focused and solid mid in recordings, and a center mic is often helping here... only use as much as the recording demands, no strict level rules.

::
Mads

[pkautzsch]

Main pair of pressure omnis is usually the best for choirs. I've found Schoeps sound to be very pleasing with choirs, but I'm sure the MKH20s will do a great job too. Matter of taste, really.

As a piano often sounds too roomy and distant on the main pair in such recordings, it's good to spot it. Using fig-8 pattern with the null towards the choir will keep it clean and make it mixable without making the nearest singers stick out of the ensemble.
If you see any chance that the piano might overwhelm the choir in certain passages, you could do the same trick (preferrably with the MKH800 pair) for the choir, with the piano in the nulls. Keep some distance, as these are REALLY directional and will pick out only few voices when too close.