SADiE LRX2

[slaphappygarry]

I was at a Prism lecture tonight and saw one of the above units in action and it totally blew me away.

64 channels of hard disk recording with fully on board editing with very good mic pre's and converters in something smaller (and lighter) than my Mac Pro alone.

I am gonna try and get my hands on one for a demo next year.

Anyone using them on location jobs? Happy?

Garry

[Sinewave]

Originally Posted by slaphappygarry

I was at a Prism lecture tonight and saw one of the above units in action and it totally blew me away.

64 channels of hard disk recording with fully on board editing with very good mic pre's and converters in something smaller (and lighter) than my Mac Pro alone.

I am gonna try and get my hands on one for a demo next year.

Anyone using them on location jobs? Happy?

Garry

Was it using the new SADiE V 6 software ?

[slaphappygarry]

Nope

V5. They did mention / show off some pictures of 6...

G

[0VU]

Originally Posted by slaphappygarry

Anyone using them on location jobs? Happy?

Yes. Very.

[sonare]

You didn't mention the price---

RIch

[slaphappygarry]

SADiE LRX2 plus 2x 16 channel mic cards (32channel) = £8k ish

Pro Tools HD 2 with 2 192's = £7.5k ish (Plus mac, plus 32 channels of pre amps...)

Pretty comparable I think....

[matt2525]

plus that sadie unit is not much bigger than a laptop, has 9 faders and transport / track arming controls, all the processing is done within the unit, so all you need is a standard laptop and a hard drive for your session and you're done - everything would fit in a shoulder bag!!

[sonare]

Pretty keen-- BUT if you want the main stuff near the mics and the laptop (and monitors) in a distant control room and the restriction of having to page through for faders 9 and up then you have a problem. How does the unit talk to a backup device?

Would be good to know if those items can be worked around, and good to get the real info on this.

Also-- can SADiE 6 apply delay to individual channels? I do not think that 5 could.
Rich

[slaphappygarry]

Its the stability of the unit plus the fact that a tiny wee thing like that can do 64 channels that has seduced me.

I would love to get hold of a demo version and report back all.

G

[Andy Le Vien]

Originally Posted by sonare

Pretty keen-- BUT if you want the main stuff near the mics and the laptop (and monitors) in a distant control room and the restriction of having to page through for faders 9 and up then you have a problem. How does the unit talk to a backup device?

Would be good to know if those items can be worked around, and good to get the real info on this.

Also-- can SADiE 6 apply delay to individual channels? I do not think that 5 could.
Rich

If you need the mic amps near the mics and the laptop far away, then obviously you'll have to buy some decent stand alone micamps and come back to SADiE at line level. But reviews and other opinions I've heard say that the LRX mic amps are very good, and relatively reasonably priced.

SADiE can write to a simultaneous mirror drive as a backup.

Speaking to the excellent Mark from SADiE at Plasa I was told that individual channel delay was in the works for V6.

[Murton]

I've also heard that sadie is the only platform which proactively saves files as they are recorded, not forgetting them like Tools etc which is why it is used in broadcast trucks here in Australia in the ABC.

[sonare]

As a satisfied Prism Orpheus/Sequoia user this is interesting but not iresistably enticing, as I already have the delays, etc. And as I can currently extend 100m via fiber it's really nice to not need wads of cable. If I could reduce my equipment load (3 Orpheus+ micamps for line-only channels) then I would give it a very serious look.

But the PT requirement to bounce in realtime and then export to burn a disc (not to mention lack of a real crossfade editor and source/destination editing) would send me over the edge!

Rich

[mpdonahue]

Originally Posted by sonare

As a satisfied Prism Orpheus/Sequoia user this is interesting but not iresistably enticing, as I already have the delays, etc. And as I can currently extend 100m via fiber it's really nice to not need wads of cable. If I could reduce my equipment load (3 Orpheus+ micamps for line-only channels) then I would give it a very serious look.

But the PT requirement to bounce in realtime and then export to burn a disc (not to mention lack of a real crossfade editor and source/destination editing) would send me over the edge!

Rich

Rich,
We've recently built a couple of stage box systems for our PCM multitrack jobs and reduced the amount of cable and weight by a significant amount.
The first one is 32 channels of Aphex 188 mic preamps with an RME ADAT to MADI bridge. We can locate the control room up to 1km away. (Not very convenient for adjusting mics....) The cable is a quad fiber snake that weighs about 12 pounds and a pair of CAT5 to optical converters. The rack weighs just north of 30 pounds in its case.

The second is 32 channels of Grace with an SSL Alphalink SX. One preamp has the Grace AD converter feeding the SSL via AES. Same number of channels as the one above, and we can combine systems if we need more than 32 tracks.
This one obviously weighs a little bit more....... the rack weighs in at about 80 pounds.
For recorders, I have a new PC I just built that has a pair of double MADI SSL card in it that allows me to do 128 tracks at 96k. At 96k I can only record 48 tracks in Pyramix Native and Sequoia boggs down at around 64 tracks, but funny enough I've gotten Reaper to do 96 tracks..... All this is moot because it is very rare that we go over 32 tracks unless we're doing a big opera. One of the nice things about this setup os that we can have gear in several locations around the venue and combine them in the computer by picking the which channels we want from each MADI stream.
Lately I've been taking my little 4 pound ASUS notebook with an RME Madiface as backup. One of the smallest 32 track backups on the planet at less than 8 pounds including eSATA drive and power supply. Also perfect for doing quick and dirty edits in the hotel room.

Finally we have recently began testing the Genex/Desono stage box that does 48 tracks of DSD or 192k PCM down a single Copper or optical MADI connection(Non standard of course...). It has both Mic and line inputs and is completely remote controlled via a laptop over CAT5. As with all things Genex, it's a brilliant product but it's taken some time to get it up to speed. The big problem is that it needs a working 9048 to record all those tracks. We've got three, but not many others can say the same....
All the best,
-mark

[sonare]

Mark,

This all looks pretty mouth-watering but I daresay you have more need for the higher track-counts. I only need more than 8 channels about 6 times per year.

The ASUS backup looks intriguing but I cannot figure out how I could get the current rig to talk to it. Now I go into the HD24 analog out of the Prisms (the ASIO driver is NOT happy outputting ADAT and monitoring thru Seq) and the Prisms don't like any other FW device on the same bus. On the laptop end I currently record to a SATA HD fed off the epxresscard bus. Can you see any way to toss the HD24 and use a similar backup to you?

Rich

[Sinewave]

Also-- can SADiE 6 apply delay to individual channels? I do not think that 5 could.
Rich

Yes it will have it, at least the native version

Finally we have recently began testing the Genex/Desono stage box that does 48 tracks of DSD or 192k PCM down a single Copper or optical MADI connection(Non standard of course...). It has both Mic and line inputs and is completely remote controlled via a laptop over CAT5. As with all things Genex, it's a brilliant product but it's taken some time to get it up to speed. The big problem is that it needs a working 9048 to record all those tracks. We've got three, but not many others can say the same....
All the best,
-mark

Are Desono new owners ?

[Plush]

I am here working on a new project and putting the finishing touches on a couple of records. Even my largest orch+ singer soloists barely reaches 24 tracks. The best recordings I have made, participated in or learned about from the real masters have been mostly low track count jobs. Many were mixed to stereo on the spot.

Mark's post above and even Rich's red herring SADiE demand for delays has me highly amused. In fact, reading this thread on GS is providing comedy relief for a few different reasons. Do regional orchestras require mics up their butt when the only benefit is picking up their mistakes in high fidelity? The more you mic it, the more the mistakes are highlighted. There is a synthetic quality to too much of the over mixed and overproduced material coming out today. Heavy grease with a Bricasti reverb is de riguer and reminds me of the red grease that is ubiquitous in a Greek diner.

I have abandoned use of delays but if I need it, it is done in a real console, not on a computer.

Especially conjuring a bellylaugh is any association past or present with those
fraudsters Genex. Laughable! Mark is that what your client's money bought some years ago? Laughable, as is the quotation of super high track counts at high clock speeds.

What is this? A peep show where grown men try to impress other men with their portable package? It seems so.

As for SADiE, it is a fantastic box all around. In fact, the current version does everything I require except run SOME VST plugs smoothly. I think the news about SADiE 6 is good news. LRX2 is a fantastic set-up for people who like to record on a computer. If it's good enough for Tony F. then it's good enough for everyone else who is not Tony F.

I record all my myriad mics to 6 channels on a Nagra VI. I am proud that I must plan and decide RIGHT THEN, at the recording how the sound balance will be made.

By the way I also will never be editing something in a hotel room. I'll be out at table at the best restaurant in whatever town I'm in; drinking and dining while regaling others and listening to funny commentary and stories. Then I might even get a prostitute and charge her fee to the record company or orchestra.

The most successful way that this has been accomplished is by getting my hotel to list her fee as "limousine service."

[sonare]

Originally Posted by Plush

What is this? A peep show where grown men try to impress other men with their portable package? It seems so.

By the way I also will never be editing something in a hotel room. I'll be out at table at the best restaurant in whatever town I'm in; drinking and dining while regaling others and listening to funny commentary and stories. Then I might even get a prostitute and charge her fee to the record company or orchestra.

The most successful way that this has been accomplished is by getting my hotel to list her fee as "limousine service."

You JOKESTER! You showed me yours but you haven't seen mine! (GEAR, guys)

R

[7rojo7]

I'd be happy with 16 for ensemble/orchestra work, but 64 will get you the brass ring on other gigs. But I see a different control surface or none at all and remote pres being more convenient. I would guess that this system would sound top notch though, and that to me is most important.
If you get to the gig early enough, a lot of this is moot. Years ago you'd've had to have immediate control over many things, but that's changed. As long as you can get a check on the extremes...
Just because you have a lot of tracks doesn't mean they all have to be open all of the time. Opera is one where this could be true, but for this i would port it to post, on the spot could become quite hectic and the S is fading from my undershirt moment by moment.
Plush, I hope your clients don't frequent GS

[Mazo Audio]

Originally Posted by Plush

Then I might even get a prostitute and charge her fee to the record company or orchestra.

The most successful way that this has been accomplished is by getting my hotel to list her fee as "limousine service."

And all this time I've been looking for a suitable quote for my signature. Touche' !!

Thanks plush

[Haigbabe]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

I'd be happy with 16 for ensemble/orchestra work, but 64 will get you the brass ring on other gigs. But I see a different control surface or none at all and remote pres being more convenient.

If we are to compare apples to apples, we'd have to look at the LRX2 i/o. If one was to run the mic/line slither cards, then 48 inputs are available.

If you need 56 (or 64) inputs, then you'd use the MADI input slither card. That would mean external mic pres etc (plus MADI).

One also has to consider how monitoring is done. If all three slots are populated with inputs, it makes outputs a bit trickier! But not impossible. (This depends on how many people want to use headphones or speakers etc).

I can usually record a concert or opera or whatever with 32 channels (or fewer) so mainly use the first two slither slots for inputs. The third slot can then be outputs, or in my case I use the digital i/o card (and monitor through a Benchmark DAC-1 or Weiss DAC2).

If one uses the mic/line cards, they provide totally adequate pre-amplification and conversion. The convenience is remarkable and the reliability usually pretty good.

Haigbabe

[Nobilmente]

Originally Posted by Plush

I am here working on a new project and putting the finishing touches on a couple of records. Even my largest orch+ singer soloists barely reaches 24 tracks. The best recordings I have made, participated in or learned about from the real masters have been mostly low track count jobs. Many were mixed to stereo on the spot.

Mark's post above and even Rich's red herring SADiE demand for delays has me highly amused. In fact, reading this thread on GS is providing comedy relief for a few different reasons. Do regional orchestras require mics up their butt when the only benefit is picking up their mistakes in high fidelity? The more you mic it, the more the mistakes are highlighted. There is a synthetic quality to too much of the over mixed and overproduced material coming out today. Heavy grease with a Bricasti reverb is de riguer and reminds me of the red grease that is ubiquitous in a Greek diner.

I have abandoned use of delays but if I need it, it is done in a real console, not on a computer.

Especially conjuring a bellylaugh is any association past or present with those
fraudsters Genex. Laughable! Mark is that what your client's money bought some years ago? Laughable, as is the quotation of super high track counts at high clock speeds.

What is this? A peep show where grown men try to impress other men with their portable package? It seems so.

As for SADiE, it is a fantastic box all around. In fact, the current version does everything I require except run SOME VST plugs smoothly. I think the news about SADiE 6 is good news. LRX2 is a fantastic set-up for people who like to record on a computer. If it's good enough for Tony F. then it's good enough for everyone else who is not Tony F.

I record all my myriad mics to 6 channels on a Nagra VI. I am proud that I must plan and decide RIGHT THEN, at the recording how the sound balance will be made.

By the way I also will never be editing something in a hotel room. I'll be out at table at the best restaurant in whatever town I'm in; drinking and dining while regaling others and listening to funny commentary and stories. Then I might even get a prostitute and charge her fee to the record company or orchestra.

The most successful way that this has been accomplished is by getting my hotel to list her fee as "limousine service."

Why is it that all of this so completely chimes with the way I think?! Apart from the prostitute!!!
Could it be that is makes complete sense?!

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Murton

I've also heard that sadie is the only platform which proactively saves files as they are recorded, not forgetting them like Tools etc which is why it is used in broadcast trucks here in Australia in the ABC.

I don't think this is strictly true. Most systems can have a form of back-up save, I know my Pyramix does, plus you have to contend with the fact that all systems are writting to disc blocks of data, with wav files they need a header and footer which isn't written until you stop recording. Pyramix have a file recovery tool that can recover almost all a lost file should you get a crash, mains failure etc. I had this happen to me one time when a client switched off the building mains supply by accident and was able to recover right up to the time the mains failed. I am sure that there is a wav recovery tool as well.

Regards


Roland

[Gaston69]

Hi Plush,

I must keep this one in mind just in case:

"Then I might even get a prostitute and charge her fee to the record company or orchestra.

The most successful way that this has been accomplished is by getting my hotel to list her fee as "limousine service."

[matthewd]

I've had my LRX for a couple of years and it has been brilliant - if small footprint and rapid setup is the priority I use it with the mic / line slither card. If I've got a bit more time I use my AES cards which of course are 16 outputs as well as inputs. I've also used it very effectively in Madi mode for which I hire in a card occasionally - I have yet to buy one. This tends to be when tracking live from digital consoles. I use a Sadie PCM 64 back at base for all the post. I am not all that good when it comes to learning new software so although we do have Pro Tools and Pyramix here, I'd always gravitate towards Sadie when serious editing is concerned just because I am more fluent on it. Bug bears? I do find the supplied headphone amp is not very good but then again, if using it in AES mode, then I have a proper monitoring situation going on digitally. I do dream of some sort of stage box containing Prism mic pres and convertors would come onto the market.

Matt Dilley
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