Stereo Pair for Recording Bright (and Uncommon) Field Material - Page 2

Nityananda_SCSM · 9th October 2009

chris319: A thousand pardons if I didn't properly express my gratitude for you and everyone else's advice. Actually I am a complete novice and am relying completely on the invaluable (yet free!) advice of the members of this forum and other audio professionals that I speak with.

What I meant by my comment was that I wanted to make a possibly inappropriate-for-my-situation equipment purchase (by buying a MKH8040 or something) so that I could learn and hear what Baithak and others are talking about when they tell me that I will be better off using a good dynamic.

Apparently a dynamic will capture my sound sufficiently (because it is not very intricate/subtle/New York Philharmonic Orchestra) and a dynamic will NOT pick up the unwanted sounds of random noise pollution that plague modern day India (like Bollywood pop music blasting from loudspeakers one street over, cars honking like mad, old women yelling at each other, crows/monkeys/crazy animals making noises outside the window, etc.)

This all makes sense to me theoretically, and I trust the advice of the experienced members of this forum who are trying to help me, so I will go by that advice.

However, I want to buy a sensitive condenser mic to rig up alongside the rest of my rig just so I can compare the mics in post, and really HEAR the differences for myself, so that I can learn how this really works in a practical way. That will give me the best shot at being qualified/knowledgeable for future situations, and real life experience can generally teach you this better than even the absolute best educator/adviser can in a classroom or on a forum.

That said, I want to be actually making something good while I'm out there, not just learning. So I will be buying what you guys tell me and doing the best I can with it.

---

BTW: I haven't decided whether to buy the 4track Edirol R-44 or the Tascam FR2-LE, but I will only be using a combination of mics (441 for vocal, pair of PR30s overhead, sensitive condenser for reference, pair of Rodes for drum, backup singers mics, etc.) when I do planned recordings with my laptop/Digimax 96k/ Saffire Pro 24 DSP, which I already have bought. When I use the boompole in the field it'll probably be either just the stereo mic or a cardiod on boompole plus an omni handheld for interviews.

chris319 · 9th October 2009

Quote:

I wanted to make a possibly inappropriate-for-my-situation equipment purchase (by buying a MKH8040 or something) so that I could learn and hear what Baithak and others are talking about when they tell me that I will be better off using a good dynamic.

You already own a condenser but hey, it's your money.

d_fu · 12th October 2009

Sorry to chime in late...

Where did you record so far, a lot is obviously sung in Bengali...

Your 825 is doing a very good job (Listening to Tuhu doya-sagara etc. from your website - good mix, too). I would keep it... Or try one of the other stereo mics chris recommended. Easy to place, easy to move, doesn't look too expensive. The results are very plausible and realistic. They are pleasant to listen to, there is nothing that would distract from the music and unnecessarily draw the listener's attention to deficits of sound quality. And I think that is a lot already, given the conditions you record in...

I believe it makes no sense to compare the finest details of various mics at 13602 Hz for your purposes. These differences matter most when recording close to a source, but will certainly even out a bit at a distance, i.e. in stereo setups. The surroundings / hall acoustics will matter a lot more than the actual mics. If something sounds overly bright, use an EQ...

If you wish to get a stereo pair, go primarily by what people recommend from experience in humid conditions. Reliability counts much more than sound quality details of mostly academic nature.

I personally would not use dynamics in ambient stereo setups (with the exception of maybe the Beyer M201, which would also be a good spot mic). If there's a car, cow, or whatever, then that's part of the whole thing, is it not...?

Daniel

Gutbucket · 12th October 2009

Another suggestion for the DPA mini omnis. They are super hardy mics even though they are so tiny and delicate looking. I've used them in similar scenarios for ambient travel recording in rain and humid conditions and never have to worry about them working, yet they also perform really well for musically demanding material like Western classical chamber music (just ran 4 of them for string quartet surround recording last night) and Indian classical music, in my case mostly Hindustani. They are not dark or 'high-taming', but will record the shimmering cymbals with clarity and a transparency that lends itself to supporting significant eq adjustment without a fuss when that's necessary. I find them especially clear and excellent at recording the environment as heard. Get them a bit closer than you would a card or hyper and you 'll get a very natural sound, yet they also sound good way back in the diffuse field (along with everything else in the room- they won't exclude anything unless baffled if rejection is really what you are really looking for). One of my favorite mics. I'd suggest the 4060 over the 4061 for it's greater sensitivity and superior noise spec.

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9th October 2009	#31
Nityananda_SCSM Gear nut Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 79 Thread Starter	chris319: A thousand pardons if I didn't properly express my gratitude for you and everyone else's advice. Actually I am a complete novice and am relying completely on the invaluable (yet free!) advice of the members of this forum and other audio professionals that I speak with. What I meant by my comment was that I wanted to make a possibly inappropriate-for-my-situation equipment purchase (by buying a MKH8040 or something) so that I could learn and hear what Baithak and others are talking about when they tell me that I will be better off using a good dynamic. Apparently a dynamic will capture my sound sufficiently (because it is not very intricate/subtle/New York Philharmonic Orchestra) and a dynamic will NOT pick up the unwanted sounds of random noise pollution that plague modern day India (like Bollywood pop music blasting from loudspeakers one street over, cars honking like mad, old women yelling at each other, crows/monkeys/crazy animals making noises outside the window, etc.) This all makes sense to me theoretically, and I trust the advice of the experienced members of this forum who are trying to help me, so I will go by that advice. However, I want to buy a sensitive condenser mic to rig up alongside the rest of my rig just so I can compare the mics in post, and really HEAR the differences for myself, so that I can learn how this really works in a practical way. That will give me the best shot at being qualified/knowledgeable for future situations, and real life experience can generally teach you this better than even the absolute best educator/adviser can in a classroom or on a forum. That said, I want to be actually making something good while I'm out there, not just learning. So I will be buying what you guys tell me and doing the best I can with it. --- BTW: I haven't decided whether to buy the 4track Edirol R-44 or the Tascam FR2-LE, but I will only be using a combination of mics (441 for vocal, pair of PR30s overhead, sensitive condenser for reference, pair of Rodes for drum, backup singers mics, etc.) when I do planned recordings with my laptop/Digimax 96k/ Saffire Pro 24 DSP, which I already have bought. When I use the boompole in the field it'll probably be either just the stereo mic or a cardiod on boompole plus an omni handheld for interviews.

12th October 2009	#33
d_fu Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 2,420	Sorry to chime in late... Where did you record so far, a lot is obviously sung in Bengali... Your 825 is doing a very good job (Listening to Tuhu doya-sagara etc. from your website - good mix, too). I would keep it... Or try one of the other stereo mics chris recommended. Easy to place, easy to move, doesn't look too expensive. The results are very plausible and realistic. They are pleasant to listen to, there is nothing that would distract from the music and unnecessarily draw the listener's attention to deficits of sound quality. And I think that is a lot already, given the conditions you record in... I believe it makes no sense to compare the finest details of various mics at 13602 Hz for your purposes. These differences matter most when recording close to a source, but will certainly even out a bit at a distance, i.e. in stereo setups. The surroundings / hall acoustics will matter a lot more than the actual mics. If something sounds overly bright, use an EQ... If you wish to get a stereo pair, go primarily by what people recommend from experience in humid conditions. Reliability counts much more than sound quality details of mostly academic nature. I personally would not use dynamics in ambient stereo setups (with the exception of maybe the Beyer M201, which would also be a good spot mic). If there's a car, cow, or whatever, then that's part of the whole thing, is it not...? Daniel

12th October 2009	#34
Gutbucket Gear Head Joined: May 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 53	Another suggestion for the DPA mini omnis. They are super hardy mics even though they are so tiny and delicate looking. I've used them in similar scenarios for ambient travel recording in rain and humid conditions and never have to worry about them working, yet they also perform really well for musically demanding material like Western classical chamber music (just ran 4 of them for string quartet surround recording last night) and Indian classical music, in my case mostly Hindustani. They are not dark or 'high-taming', but will record the shimmering cymbals with clarity and a transparency that lends itself to supporting significant eq adjustment without a fuss when that's necessary. I find them especially clear and excellent at recording the environment as heard. Get them a bit closer than you would a card or hyper and you 'll get a very natural sound, yet they also sound good way back in the diffuse field (along with everything else in the room- they won't exclude anything unless baffled if rejection is really what you are really looking for). One of my favorite mics. I'd suggest the 4060 over the 4061 for it's greater sensitivity and superior noise spec.