Recording in the Round

[doughthedj]

First, thanks for taking a look. I did see this post, but my setup is a little different and that thread is over three years old. Anyhow, here goes.

I have been asked to record a performance that will be in the round:

The stage is about 13' wide. None of the instruments or performers will be mic'ed at all and there is no PA in the venue. The main performer also doesnt want a bunch of mics in everyones face. My first thought is to hang a nice stereo (Blumlein) mic right in the middle of the stage and be done with it. I am thinking an AKG C426B or Shure VP-88 for the stereo mic. There will be additional insrtuments that will be on stage just for certain songs. Either the Acoustic Guitar or Piano will be played at any given time but never together. I was just wondering what y'all could come up with. Ideas?

[12ax7]

I've done a lot of theater, so I feel ya on the "don't want to see the mics" thing.

I'd say (depending on the budget), your idea of a pair over the stage ain't exacly a bad idea.

If you have the ability to do so, I'd go multitrack with the project (like perhaps an HD24), and add a few mics that could be mixed in (at will) later.

Given the choice, I'd plant a few mics in strategic places:

PZMs can do a good job, and stay out of the way at the same time (as long as you have a place to put them).

Furthermore, SDC lavaliers can often be planted on (or near) intruments without pissing anybody off.

Talk to the individual musicians as early as you can. Most musicians are glad to help, and often will agree to use an instrument with a built-in pickup, or otherwise work with you to accommodate placement of what you have. (Hell, sometimes they'll even go to the car and get a mic for ya.)

Also, a Stage Manager, Grip, Stagehand, or other "techie" can often be of assistance when planting mics. ("Mind if I put a mic in this potted plant?" or "Would it be all the same to you if the potted pland were a little closer to the Cello?")

The really nice thing about going multitrack with a project like this is that you can often simultaniously do a live mix to a couple of tracks, while also leaving all the sorces on their own tracks (in case you have to bail your ass out later).

...Just my considered $0.02...

[doughthedj]

Ahh,yes. The PZM. I didnt consider using them as they are not something I use on a daily basis. A lav might work too.

I was hoping to avoid bringing out the HD24 as then I have the drag some pre's along too, I have a 002 rig, but that limits me to 8 inputs (4 without any outboard pre's). I certainly dont mind having more audio than I need.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by doughthedj

<snip>

I was hoping to avoid bringing out the HD24 as then I have the drag some pre's along too

<snip>

Beats having to rent a time machine to go back and mic something!

(They're a little pricey.)

[doughthedj]

This is true. This is true.

[pkautzsch]

What we need to know is:
1 - will the performers move around during performance? I see three singers, they might want to face each side of the audience for a while; instrumentalists, OTOH, might well face inward for visual contact to their fellows.
2 - what's the aesthetics of the music to be recorded? I'd guess we want the vocals in front, the instruments behind them, about as you'd hear them from the center. Surround would be nice here. Else you need to find some way to fold the surround performance down to stereo.

The idea with the main mic flying above center stage isn't bad - though (see 1.) singers will probably sing away from the mic.
Miking from outside will invert the perspective: instruments very close and from the back, and behind them the vocals.

Might be a lot of flying mics, preferrably CCMs or KMs with remote capsules, or other similarly small mics.
PZM under the piano and in front of the kit. Lavs on singers if they don't mind.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

<snip>
Lavs on singers if they don't mind.

If you can get good reliable wireless lavs, so much the better.

Here's an old trick: If possible, get the vocalists to wear them in the hair or over the ear -- somewhere ON the head. (Seems like it wouldn't be the best spot, but it really is because the sound won't change when they move their heads!)

Also, watch out if the vocalists get to close to each other when using lavs! You may find yourself having to temporarily just pick one (or even swap 'em back and forth, using each vocalist's mic for the other!)

The unpredictability of all this makes another strong case for multitracking this one.

Again, this is theater experience talking. The live mixes I did for theater were some of the most active moving mixes I've ever done (without automation, anyway). Really taught me to stay on my toes and expect the unexpected. And every night was completely different.

[doughthedj]

@pkautzsch

I am not sure which way the instrumentalists or the singers are going to face right now or if they will move around. My sense was that the singers would be all facing one direction. The main vocal will be playing guitar and piano, the other two vocals are background vocals. I have been assuming the Instrumentalists would be facing each other.

There is a rehearsal tomorrow night and I should get to see most of the production then.

The music being recorded is a really stripped down acoustic set of original rock/pop songs. Think a funkier and less dramatic Coldplay.

@12ax7

Another great idea about having the singers wear the lavs over their ears. I am going to look into renting some of the flesh colored headworn mics, those should be less invasive than a 58 (I actually prefer the Beta 87) in their face.

At this point I am 90% sure I will end up recording more that just the stereo mic hanging in the center of the stage.

I will know a lot more after the rehearsal tomorrow. Thanks for the great ideas.

[7rojo7]

I wouldn't use Blumlein for this as the reversed L/R on the backside (out of phase) will present some confusion for the imaging, not to mention that many things will disappear in mono and there would be nothing that could correct it. I would use a synthesized LCR with omnis or half omnis. Put the left mic over the things you want to the left and so on... pan your heart out
If you need spot mics, they can be placed unobtrusively

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by doughthedj

@pkautzsch

There is a rehearsal tomorrow night and I should get to see most of the production then.

<snip>

I will know a lot more after the rehearsal tomorrow. Thanks for the great ideas.

Oh, a rehearsal! Lucky YOU!

My advice is to set up as if you are going to actually record the show with no second chance (wasting as little time and gaffer's tape as possible), then refine it between the rehearsal and the show and make it pretty.

The work you do between that rehearsal and the show will probably be some of the most thankless work you've ever done.

Try to bear in mind that MUCH about the show will probably change. (After all, that's why they're doing a rehearsal).

In order to find out what those changes will be, try to pay attention when the director (or whomever) is giving "notes" (or at least get a report from somebody), and try to prepare for the unexpected, because things will still go differently than intended! (You can count on it.)

I cannot over-emphasize the importance of "playing nice" with all the other techies! Good rapport with these folks is the key to great results for all concerned.

Let us know how it goes!

[7rojo7]

Record the rehearsal
You might use some of it if part of the show fallsstike
you'll be the hero

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

Record the rehearsal
You might use some of it if part of the show fallsstike
you'll be the hero

I can't believe I forgot to mention that!