Recording acoustic bass

[clarnibass]

Sorry if this was asked before but here it goes.

A friend of mine wants to record his acoustic bass. He has a Rode NT-1A and a Shure SM57 (or is it SM58 I'm not sure, does it matter?).
The room is not the best acoustically but there is no noise to get into the condenser so that is not a problem.
What would be the best way (mic choice, mic placement, or any other advice) to record the acoustic bass?

Also, he wants to buy a pickup for the bass. What pickup do you recommend, and how much should it cost?
(and maybe it is also good to use the pickup together with a mic for recording?)

Thank you very much.

[themaidsroom]

i don't know the rode , but assuming that it is roughly the same size as a 451,
find some foam or some rubber bands and fashion a way of suspending it in
the bridge pointing towards the neck.....

i usually have a ldc condenser at one of the f-holes as well, but i am often
shocked at how much of the umph is coming from the 451....

the pickup through the b-15 is a nice add on if you've got the track space....
my bass player just got a new pickup, but i don't know the mark - i would
do some research - i have found upright bass pickups to vary wildly in
quality - some actually make it to the mix...some are erased within an
hour of the bass player leaving.....


be well


- jack

[Peter Morrison]

well, since the Rode is a large diaphragm I'd use that at the f-hole

go with what Jack said about mic placement, but use the 57 there, this is my favorite approach for live sound reinforcement of uprights.

if what you have is the 58 (big silver bulb at the top) you can use it in place of the 57, but it might be more of a pain getting it under the bridge

take care
Peter

[dale116dot7]

Depends on the style. I like a small diaphram condensor (I like the old C451EB+CK1 or the Altec M11 'Coke Bottle') out front, maybe 30cm away from the bridge on the treble side of the bass for pizz and rockabilly, or a U47FET is nice for arco, up front, maybe a half metre away from the bridge. You can really vary the sound with placement. I haven't used a pickup on recording, that might work better on jazz or if you have a leakage emergency (and you need a leakage-free bass that has been recorded), but generally I don't care for the sound of a pickup. Even for PA work I like a D112 mic right close to the treble F-hole, and EQ the lows down a bit - I do that over a pickup. Jazz is a bit different - a pickup can be 'the sound' but I mostly play (and record) bluegrass, folk, and rockabilly. If you are looking at getting a small diaphragm mic, listen carefully for noise. The AT Pro37R's are too noisy for this job IMHO. I've not been really happy with the sound of most dynamics when recording upright, though actually a 57 can work well if it's placed right, and you'll probably need to EQ it a bit.

You might have to diddle with the strings to get a good sound. Rockabilly strings (Supernils) can sound out of tune no matter what you do if you play them in any way other than that slappy sounding manner. The telltale sound of this is a pitch that varies as the note decays, even if the player otherwise has good technique and is not bending the note or using insufficient pressure with the left hand. Had a session last night with that problem, but we could live with it.

[clarnibass]

Thanks very much for the replies.

Dale, the style is jazz. Pretty much mainstream bebop and latin jazz. It is a friend of mine who is in another country so I don't know what bass or what strings he has. About the mics you offered, I'm not asking at all about mics. He will not buy any mics to record, he wants to know what is the best way to record it with the equipment he already has, which is again, Rode NT-1A and a Shure SM57/58.

Maybe to add more information he will only play it pizzicato and never with a bow (at least in this recording) and he will record it by listening to a playback with headphones and record alone. No other instruments will be playing at the same time so no leakage problem.

Thanks.

[john caldwell]

Originally Posted by dale116dot7

...or a U47FET is nice for arco, up front, maybe a half metre away from the bridge. You can really vary the sound with placement...

Dale, what's the arco reference here?

I'm tracking upright tomorrow, and the program is trad acoustic folk. The player and instrument are of high caliber. I'm not needing much percussive attack, but nor do I want bloated bottom. The room will have an 8 foot ceiling, and it's pretty dead throughout mid and HF.

My initial plan was M149 in omni at 12 to 16 inches (25 to 35cm) from the treble side f-hole, and a KM184 coming in from the right and pointing to the bridge. Normally I'd track with Avalon 2022 and Distressors (3:1 shaving about 4db peak). Using a modified cardioid pattern on the M149 might be worth trying as well. This man's instrument may also have a bridge piezo, so there would be no harm in printing that signal as well.

Also available: E251, Gefell UM92s, AT 4050, tube pre's.

Any comments on my tracking plan? How would approach to session if the part were a bowed, rather than plucked, part?

Thanks group.

John-

[Clive Banks]

You could try micing the bridge with the sm-57 and using the large condensor just a foot or two back. don't let the mics interfer with the performance naturally.

[john caldwell]

Originally Posted by Clive Banks

You could try micing the bridge with the sm-57 and using the large condensor just a foot or two back. don't let the mics interfer with the performance naturally.

For the bridge mic, is there any benefit in a low bandwidth signal path like the Sm57 vs. a sdc? What distance from the bridge might you use? I wasn't too interested in the notion of attaching the bridge mic to the instrument with foam and such.

Thanks.

John-

[Bento]

I play upright bass and have had some luck with a large diaphrgm condensor right in front of the bridge about a foot away, mixed with a small diaphragm condensor (451, KM184 etc) up around and off to the side of the nut of the bass pointing to around where the neck meets the body. (about 5 inches away from the nut.) You'd be surprised what a full and even sound just the small condensoe will give you. Gives you a bit more presence on the strings too. Always a good idea to DI, too.

[echorec]

Originally Posted by john caldwell

Dale, what's the arco reference here?


John-

Arco is when the bass is played with a bow, if that is what you were asking.

[Ricey]

one of my favorite bass sounds is from Paul Chambers. aside from the fact that he was incredible, he recorded with a C12 rolled up in carpet padding, threaded under the arch of the bridge. i was recorded with an FET U47 in front of the f-hole once, and loved it.
after getting a Walter Woods amp, however, i like to just go direct with that as my DI. absolutely huge.