video monitors for stage use?

[matt thomas]

hi

I was wondering if anyone has experience with LCD monitors for stage use in a theatre.

I am thinking that standard LCD TV's will not suffice, as they will have to compete against stage lighting, possibly smoke, and have to be visible clearly form the back of a decent sized theater (sitting about 1000 say).

I also wouldn't need the receiver functions of a standard TV, just the monitor with an external input.

Does anyone know what I should look out for, or recommend some options? What brightness/contrast (etc) rating they should have?

I am wanting approx 10 monitors various sizes, from a medium to large modern TV size

thanks in advance

matt

[matt thomas]

bump, also plasma vs LCD for this application?

thanks

matt

[LX3]

You can get excellent brightness levels out of current LCD televisions, so that's probably your best bet.

Dedicated monitors (i.e. without tuner) are usually much more expensive and don't deliver any better performance (although they have pro-video features like HD-SDI inputs and overlays etc... which it doesn't sound like you need). The economies of scale on mass-market products push prices down.

Plasma, although it's a great technology, probably won't work in this application. It can't achieve the same brightness levels, and so is mainly suited to dimmed rooms.

Since you need a range of sizes, it's also worth nothing that you also won't find many plasma sets below about 40" diagonal, while LCD typically goes down to 19".

I would stick to the big manufacturers in LCD e.g. Sony, Samsung, and try to go for recent models as the performance of these panels (in terms of contrast ratio, colour rendering, scaling and deinterlacing) improves every year. Avoid cheap "no-name" LCD TVs, as they're often using older technology.

Obviously, the more you flood the stage with light, the lower the relative brightness of the TVs will be, so I would imagine it's down to your LD to find a balance which gives you the lighting level you need, but also the punch you're looking for from the TVs.

The only other (fairly obvious) thing I'd suggest is to buy or borrow a decent TV, find a theatre stage that's free for an afternoon, and try it.

HTH

[Petrus]

Monitor pricing: I just bought a 17" dedicated Panasonic HD (and not even full HD) video monitor for video work, and I could easily get 2-3 decent 42" televisions with all kinds of tuners for the same price. Forget monitors, just buy a vanload of televisions and bargain a good dicount. Easier to sell them after the project, too.

There really is no much difference in the light output levels between brands and models, you just have to live with what the screens provide and adjust the lighting accordingly.

[matt thomas]

thanks paul and petrus, I'll have a look at some tv's then.

I'm also going to have to look into how to play synchronized video on multiple screens (meaning a different image on each, but all synchronized to one audio track, I'm yet to do any research into this, but if anyone has some ideas of what to look at? Ideally I'd like it all playing from one computer, but getting that many simultaneous images may be an issue (?) I see the mac pros can have 8 monitor outputs (with extra cards), but could they all play full screen video at the same time?

(I used to run a tv studio about 15-20 years ago, so I have fair idea about this type of thing, however that was back in the analog days, and technology has moved on a loooong way since then)

matt

[videoteque]

I arrived late to tell you how that monitors are so much expensive that tvs, that you are better buying tvs!!!

About multiple outputs video is not easy, nor cheap, to do it with some control...

If you don't need absolute control or sync you can do the old trick of putting several same model DVD players and use just on remote!thumbsup

If you are not rich, you can try some VJ solution, these solutions are usually based around the idea of making one big video, choosing which parts of the video go to which output and you need a poweful computer + graphic card. I recomend Mac for this and you can read about VJs and soft/technique here!thumbsupthumbsup

If you are rich there are professional digital signage and multimedia presentation systems. They used to be expensive as hell. Hippo is an example, and I also found arkaos server which doesn't seem that expensive...

[matt thomas]

Thanks xavier

I could get away with one video file that plays the whole way through the performance on each screen (although Ideally I'd be able to change timing of sections on the fly), and I figure I could do this by syncing a number of machines together with time code, although I'd much prefer to have it all off one machine if possible..

The have to be synced tightly, so that lip sync is in time with the audio track.

I don't really need to manipulate the video in real time, although I may need pause, possibly change the order of sections and things like that

Unfortunatley I'm not as rich as I'd like to be!

matt

[Remoteness]

I believe Xavier meant video sync, not lip sync.

Also, have you considered using a video router for your monitors?

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I believe Xavier meant video sync, not lip sync.

Also, have you considered using a video router for your monitors?

Yes I know that is what he meant by sync, I was just explaining why I couldn't just use a few dvd players (like he suggested as an option).

I hadn't been planning on using a router, ow where you thinking I would use it?

The Arkaos stuff looks along the right lines, but it seems overkill for what I need, I'm hoping to find a simpler (and cheaper ) solution.

matt

[Remoteness]

I see; I should have read it again before I commented.

Well, if you use a video router, you could feed one or all of the monitors with whatever signal you choose.

Depending on how many inputs and outputs the router has, you could feed each monitor a different signal if you wanted.

If budget is an issue consider buying a used video router.
I see them on eBay a lot.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Well, if you use a video router, you could feed one or all of the monitors with whatever signal you choose.

Depending on how many inputs you have, you could feed each monitor a different signal if you wanted.

yeah but my problem is how to create the signals in the first place, all synced together. So (for example) if I have filmed a conversation between 8 people, I would film it with 8 synced cameras, and then during the show I would have the premixed audio play back over the PA, and each of the eight screens would show a different persons face taking part in the discussion.

I will probably only need each signal hardwired to each screen, so I don't think I'll need a router

I'm looking into the Arkaos stuff more, they have a few options, If I went with their software I think I will have to make my own machine though as opposed to buying one of their servers..

matt

[Remoteness]

Got it!

The Arkaos system maybe the right direction for this project.

[videoteque]

8 different videos are a lot of different videos!!!

I have VJed for several years, the budgets where really low and the sync priorities secondary. So sometimes I had a background with a DVD player and mixed live the main screen from my mac.

Once you have your videos done and syncronized, it's just a matter of making a big movie. Imagine you want to screen 4 different 800x600 videos. You would make an empty 1600x1200 (800x2, 600x2), place everyvideo in a corner and tell your program to send each corner to a different screen.

I seriously think you should consider 8 screens too much for just one computer (you would need 8 different outputs!).

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by videoteque

Once you have your videos done and syncronized, it's just a matter of making a big movie. Imagine you want to screen 4 different 800x600 videos. You would make an empty 1600x1200 (800x2, 600x2), place everyvideo in a corner and tell your program to send each corner to a different screen.

Yeah I thought that was the way. It would be nice to be able to be able to control them as separate streams, but if I can't then I can work around it.

I seriously think you should consider 8 screens too much for just one computer (you would need 8 different outputs!).

yeah, I am thinking that. I think the minimum we would need is 7, there is a small possibility I could do it with 5. It could however be SD video, and perhaps even at 12 fps, therefore 8 streams would be approximately equivalent to 4 video streams at full frame rate. I assume I could do some maths and figure out the HDD requirements for such a system..

One of the screens was going to be a large one, and I was hoping to use HD for that, but I am thinking now that that might not be a possibility.

Can you recommend any software for playing unusually large resolution videos and spanning it across multiple screens? (Id probably prefer Mac, but if PC is better for this application I can go that way too)

thanks for your help

matt

[LX3]

Multiple Mac Minis, multiple copies of Virtual VTR, and a source of timecode...?

Not the cheapest solution perhaps, but flexible and should work great. You could send HD to every screen if you want.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by LX3

Multiple Mac Minis, multiple copies of Virtual VTR, and a source of timecode...?

Not the cheapest solution perhaps, but flexible and should work great. You could send HD to every screen if you want.

yeah that type of thing is another way I was considering, but it is $$$ and lots of machines

and thanks, I didn't know about virtualVTR, I'll research that a bit more

matt

[silverking]

Q-Lab is a fine package for multiple video feeds.

Inexpensive, effective, and don't forget to take a look at the list of users......lots of stage shows, including a quite a few on Broadway now use Q-Lab for video and audio playback.

QLab :: Live Show Control for Mac OS X

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by silverking

Q-Lab is a fine package for multiple video feeds.

Inexpensive, effective, and don't forget to take a look at the list of users......lots of stage shows, including a quite a few on Broadway now use Q-Lab for video and audio playback.

QLab :: Live Show Control for Mac OS X

hey nice looking interface too! (and website)

more research to do thumbsup

matt