Best small footprint mixer for a small club...

[Fantomaz]

Hey, I know this is site is mainly about recording, but I've been hanging out here for quite some time now and have found you guys to be quite knowledgeable about pretty much anything that has to do with sound, so here's my question:

I own a small/micro club (200 max on two floors)

I do live concerts about twice a month, at the moment I use a (very) old tascam digital mixer, the club PA for FOH and a small HK PA for monitors.

The club acoustics are really exceptionally good, which means I get away with a really poor sound at the moment, I am "saved" by the bleed...

I need a digital mixer with at least 12 mic inputs, good preamps, a very small footprint and preferably good quality eq, comp and effects included.

It is mainly for rock/indie bands

Anny suggestions welcome!

[tINY]

In a club, I'd look at analog boards. You really don't need all the processing that a digital board brings. For 200 seats and 12 channels, a board with a decent EQ, and a few outboard compressor/gates is really enough.



-tINY

[rivalrysound]

save your money on the digital mixer, buy a yamaha or mackie - spend the money on monitors so you'll never have to hear the bands bitch and moan.

[subspace]

Yamaha 01V96 VCM

12 mic/ 4 line/ 8 adat/ 2 s/pdif inputs
32 channels plus 4 stereo returns
8 aux sends - 4 internal fx/ 4 monitor outs
gate/ comp/ eq on all channels and comp/eq on the busses/ returns

The VCM comps that run on the internal fx processor are pretty good, the channel comps are pretty blah. Most guys that mix on M7s/ LS9s regularly will know their way around on one. Plus, you can stick in the 16 i/o adat card and feed an HD24 easily for live recording.

[IzovAge]

There's the new Presonus StudioLive. Other than that I'd say the Yamaha that was already mention.

PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2 | Sweetwater.com

[clw123]

If you definitely want to go digital.

Yamaha LS9-16 is worth a look

Cheers,
Chris

[clw123]

Is slower to operate than an M7CL, because it loses the Touch Screen. But when you get used to it, its a great little desk for small venues. Would eliminate the need for outboard gear (in your case), which would obviously save on cost and space. It has 8 internal 'rack spaces' for graphics or effects plus 2 dynamics slots on every channel.

Monitor mixes are dead easy, just assign your mixes to the 'user defined keys', so at the touch of a button, that selected monitor mix pops right down onto your faders.

Hope this helps.

What is your budget btw ?

Thanks,
Chris

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by tINY

In a club, I'd look at analog boards. You really don't need all the processing that a digital board brings. For 200 seats and 12 channels, a board with a decent EQ, and a few outboard compressor/gates is really enough.



-tINY

I pretty much have to agree with this logic. It's silly to do much more than that. For such a small venue I just don't see how you'd need all the functionality that most digital mixers offer, why complicate things?

Check out Allen and Heath and Soundcraft to start for a decent console. For not much money that happens to be my preference in both preamps and EQ's on the boards. You should be able to get 12-16 good channels for well under $2k leaving plenty of money to get a couple decent outboard pieces like comp/gates. Even one of the Onyx series boards from Mackie would be worth trying out.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe

Check out Allen and Heath and Soundcraft to start for a decent console. For not much money that happens to be my preference in both preamps and EQ's on the boards. You should be able to get 12-16 good channels for well under $2k

Bingo...
I've done live sound for a number of years.
Allen and Heath boards are fantastic.
Soundcraft are also good...

The ZED series from A and H is a price value that is flat out outstanding...
they sound great and are super cheap. Better than anything named 'mackie' that I've heard so far... and cheaper than most.

A and H makes a 16 channel mix wizard board that I've used for recording a number of times... I think it runs right around $1000..

Same goes for Soundcraft.. although, I'm not as familiar with their lineup...
they just seem to be an excellent value. I've used them for recording multiple times and they sound great..

You can also find some great used values in small boards like this... just fyi..

Older A and H, or Soundcraft.. or even Yamaha or Mackie boards..

[tINY]

The Onyx compact board I used a couple weeks back was nice too - but not flexible enough to run Monitors from FOH. But for FOH, with a few decent compressors and a greasy FX unit, it sounded great and was easy to use (just a little cramped, but he wanted a small footprint).



-tINY

[low dawg]

I would try a Midas 16 channel the pres are great and the over all sounds smokes all the other mixers.

[clw123]

Fair enough some people think analog boards would be better in this guy's club.

But he has asked for recommendations for digital boards !

Why on gearslutz does everyone always assume that if you're asking a question it means that you don't have a clue about anything lol

If this guy definitely wants a digital desk, why don't people just recommend him small digital consoles ... i.e. LS9-16 or otherwise.

Obviously this all depends on exactly how much he has to spend on a FOH setup

What caliber of artists do you intend on bringing to the venue ? What percentage of artists that have come to the venue bring their own FOH engineers ?

Wouldn't really go with the Mackie recommendation (IMO), EQ is dreadful.

Allen & Heaths, Soundcrafts they would all be fine I suppose, they're not great by any stretch of the imagination, but they would definitely do the job. Just remember you would have extra cabling costs with analog, and possible maintence and flightcase/rack costs for your outboard/graphics rack at FOH. Therefore a small, good digital desk would make sense.

Cheers,
Chris

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by clw123

Fair enough some people think analog boards would be better in this guy's club.

But he has asked for recommendations for digital boards !

Why on gearslutz does everyone always assume that if you're asking a question it means that you don't have a clue about anything lol

If this guy definitely wants a digital desk, why don't people just recommend him small digital consoles ... i.e. LS9-16 or otherwise.

Obviously this all depends on exactly how much he has to spend on a FOH setup

What caliber of artists do you intend on bringing to the venue ? What percentage of artists that have come to the venue bring their own FOH engineers ?

Wouldn't really go with the Mackie recommendation (IMO), EQ is dreadful.

Allen & Heaths, Soundcrafts they would all be fine I suppose, they're not great by any stretch of the imagination, but they would definitely do the job. Just remember you would have extra cabling costs with analog, and possible maintence and flightcase/rack costs for your outboard/graphics rack at FOH. Therefore a small, good digital desk would make sense.

Cheers,
Chris

If you had also read the venue has standing room for about 200 and their are only shows about twice a month.

Judging by that alone it'd probably take a while to pay off an expensive rig regardless of whose playing your venue. Just my two cents as a business major. He also said ANY SUGGESTIONS WELCOME. take or leave what I said. That's the great thing about the internet you can get suggestions, just because I suggest something doesn't mean you have to go do exactly what I say. It's not like I put a gun to the guy's head and said hey you have to buy this A H Mix Wiz or else.

I was just throwing out another option. I agree there is nothing wrong with a digital mixer I just don't personally feel it's necessary judging by the info I've been given especially if acoustics are good in the room.

and btw the Mackie wasn't my first choice. Personally I'd opt for an Allen and Heath if I was going analog and if I was going the digital route I'd go Yamaha.

A Midas board is an excellent suggestion.

I can think of better stuff than all these but I just highly doubt the OP will want to spend that much money especially since the posting is in LOW END THEORY and by then the small footprint might be gone lol.

[clw123]

Midas XL8 it is then :D lol

[clw123]

Or a Pro6 as a lower cost option :P

[clw123]

Just to clarify ..... I wasn't trying to be confrontational with what I wrote.

For all we know, the guy might be charging $100 entrance fee to the club, and he may be willing to spent a good amount on a desk lol

Low End Theory, doesn't always mean low end budget. There has been discussions about fairchild's etc. under this section of gearslutz.

Chris

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by clw123

Just to clarify ..... I wasn't trying to be confrontational with what I wrote.

For all we know, the guy might be charging $100 entrance fee to the club, and he may be willing to spent a good amount on a desk lol

Low End Theory, doesn't always mean low end budget. There has been discussions about fairchild's etc. under this section of gearslutz.

Chris

yeah sorry I've been kinda pissy lately I should watch what I say

[superflybass]

check out the presonus studio live !

16 great mic pres all of the gates, comps, limiters etc you need
6 aux sends

that and some powered speakers you should be golden


plus it can make some killer recordings

[tINY]

Originally Posted by clw123

Wouldn't really go with the Mackie recommendation (IMO), EQ is dreadful.

Have you used the Onyx boards, or are you thinking of the old VLZ stuff?

You may not like the new EQ design, but dreadful ??? It's about on par with the Soundcraft Europa style EQs as far as useability in a live setting.




-tINY

[drbam]

Originally Posted by tINY

Have you used the Onyx boards, or are you thinking of the old VLZ stuff?

You may not like the new EQ design, but dreadful ??? It's about on par with the Soundcraft Europa style EQs as far as useability in a live setting.




-tINY

+1!! If clw123 actually has used an Onyx (which I doubt), I cannot imagine what he would compare the Perkins eq to in order to assess it as "dreadful". tutt

[clw123]

Hello there fellow Slutz,
Would just like to inform you that I have mixed FOH in some of the world's most prestigious venues. That, therefore fellow slutters qualifies me to say that I dislike a piece of equipment

Yes, I have used an Onyx board a few times, thank you very much. And, yes I amazingly have a pair of ears. The EQ, is perhaps not completely 'dreadful' as I first stated, but it is really bad. The preamps are quite nice tho.

Just because I am helping someone out by offering advice in the Low End Theory section, please do not assume that I am a total dumbass

I don't want to start a pissing contest because I don't have the time or the desire to.

I will concede, however that the EQ and Preamps on the LS9 are not 'fantastic', but they are perfectly acceptable. And the user interface is the best of any compact digital mixer I have used. Other digital desks I have used include : Midas Pro6, Digidesign Venue, Digidesign Profile, Yama PM5D, Yama M7CL + more. Does that qualify me to have an opinion on the LS9 ????

Thanks,
Chris

Favourite Desk : Midas XL4
Favourite FOH Rig : dV-Dosc, V-Dosc, SB28s, dV-subs.
Favourite Outboard : DBX160XT, BSS DPR504, DS201s, Distressors, 1176s, H3000s, SPX2K, SPX990, M3000, M4000, Lex PCM60/60/91, XTA SiDD, XTA GQ600s and so on

I have used that equipment extensively, so that qualifies me in my own mind to say that I like it. Thank you very much and good bye

[tINY]

Originally Posted by clw123

Yes, I have used an Onyx board a few times, thank you very much. And, yes I amazingly have a pair of ears. The EQ, is perhaps not completely 'dreadful' as I first stated, but it is really bad. The preamps are quite nice tho.

Well, it you are used to having 4 bands of fully parametric EQ, I can see how you might find just about any EQ on a budget board limiting...




-tINY

[clw123]

Hi,
Its not that I find it limiting, or such a hinderance that it prevents me from doing my job at all. I just didn't think it sounded very good

Cheers,
Chris

Originally Posted by tINY

Well, it you are used to having 4 bands of fully parametric EQ, I can see how you might find just about any EQ on a budget board limiting...




-tINY

[tINY]

Originally Posted by clw123

Hi,
Its not that I find it limiting, or such a hinderance that it prevents me from doing my job at all. I just didn't think it sounded very good

And what about it didn't you like? Were you using good studio monitors at the time?



-tINY