I Know this has been done to death. C42 Vs. Mc930 For Live/Remote

[r0ck1r0ck2]

but i'm asking about 2 channel Live sound here.
all the other posts i've seen have been about drum overheads, acoustic instruments.. yadda..excetera


i'll be recording in several horrible locations around town to start, hopefully moving on to record bizzarro live music in parts beyond shortly thereafter.

when i say horrible, i mean, low ceiling, brickwall tunnels of sweaty, smokey funk.

they should be able to withstand the stupid.

i'll be using these with a Metric Halo ULN-2d and a macbook pro.

please advise.

[vintagelove]

Beyer's are great!!!

[r0ck1r0ck2]

chalk one for the beyer column.

i'm sure the josephsons are great as well

would really like to get more input here.

i'm pretty torn.

[bishopthomas]

How much are the 930's? I know you can get a pair of C42's for around $900. Are the Beyers comparable in price?

[mosrite]

I dont have any experience with the mc930's but I have used the C42's.

Perhaps a good thing about the C42's for your intended application is that they are cased in solid metal and, as such, appear to be able to take a lot of abuse. Their build quality certainly inspires confidence in that way.

I quite liked their sound but more in rock and studio applications than location acoustic work, they were too noisy for me in that respect.

I think in lowdown godforesaken dirt filled and noisy bar/clubs they might work quite nicely

[r0ck1r0ck2]

agreed about the build.

may i ask what exactly you mean by noisy?

the mic itself was noisy, or it picked up too much noise from the room?

[mathieujm]

When I recorded with my pair of 930 in horrible places, the sounds were... real.

I think I had "better" results in the same conditions with mics that have a bigger lift in the high because of a more focused sound. For this, the C42 should be ok but I don't know them.

About the sweaty conditions, it's not the best for capacitor mics. I had some problems with my 930 after having a recording in a VERY humid chapel. I dried my mics and after that there was no more problem.

JMM

[r0ck1r0ck2]

i really like the idea of a mellow sdc but i see how a bright mic could help clear up a horrible room recording. i'm sure that it will be easier to filter some excess highs than to try and add later.. you know, given a nice filter and all.

i guess one of the main things keeping me from jumping whole hog on top of a pair of c42s is their lack of pad/lo cut filter.


the uln-2d does not feature either one.

comments?

[cyjanopan]

i can post you few examples of c42`s as room mics, need to find them so it will take a little while

[cyjanopan]

Here I have only one concert recorded with C42 as room sound, but you`ll get the idea how they sound in non perfect room. Without other sources the sound is not usable at all, but with everything close miked they give some nice air even in dark rooms. I use them for that sometimes, but I like them better for kick/tom.
The low cut on them is not something I would be using anyway, so its not a problem becouse from distance there`s not much bass in them. Close to source they go really low.
Anyway, I would not recomend you them as your main SDC pair as theyre not versatile at all. The huge bump in high mids/highs is really making them sound similar on anything and anywhere

Here`s sample, first room mics alone, then in the mix.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1081966/c42.zip

[mosrite]

may i ask what exactly you mean by noisy?

By noisy I mean that the mics have a high self noise. I found this obvious especially on acoustic sources.

I can also confirm what others have been mentioning in that they are bright mics with obvious frequency boosts.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

Thanks for all the info!

the sound files were a huge help.

so the mix included all your close mics as well as the c42s as room no?

this is where i get a little ghetto. and i don't want to ruffle your feathers.

i've got to wonder if, with some eq/comp, how they would represent the low end. if you could even out the frequencies with filters, compression.
hooptie i know.

i've also got to say that i didn't hear a lot of noise on those tracks.

at 1st i'll be recording rock bands, and i've no doubt that there will be Plenty of bass to go around.

oof.
this is confusing.

quick aside.
anyone know if it's possible to plug, say the live board, into the returns of the ULN-2d to get 2 extra sources?

it's ghetto, but i won't be able to get another 2 channel pre/ad box for while, and am looking for anyway to squeeze in extra channels.

that said.

if the beyers are good all around live/location mics, and will save me the need for extra sources...


finally, if you know a good |Tough| mic pair for live/location sound, speak now or forever hold your peace.

thanks for all your advice.

it's greatly appreciated.

[cyjanopan]

I have not found them noisy, the recording was all acoustic btw.
For what you need I find hyper/cardioid ribbons/dynamics to be better.
Sometimes I use Beyers M160 to capture whole band and they do it great. My friend used to record improvised jazz quartet with just two Beyers M69 in front of band with great results. I`ll try to find sample of that tommorow and you would be suprised how good dynamics can sound in that role.
My bet would be something like Beyerdynamic M88 for that job, and you cant get more tough mic than dynamic. Theres also noticably less room in dynamics/ribbons than in condensors which is also good in that situation.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

i think i'm on file as being a ribbon freak.
and i've a m160 that i was planning to bring along as a "just in case" mic.

but i would really like to have a nice pair of small diaphragm condensers.
i would be much less worried about bringing a pair of sdc's than a pair of ribbons.
including even the mighty beyer m160s.

they should be able to go from horrible acoustics with rock bands to acoustic duos without too much difficulty.

a pair of all around tough guys.

[cyjanopan]

I get it, so I would say if you need versality you should go for flat mics rather than hyped like josephsons. But in that case I cant help you as I have not used flat SDC`s so far

[r0ck1r0ck2]

well, a little hype would be useful.. to cut threw the evil.

but imagine a stupid rock drummer pounding his ride every 1/8th note.

shudder.

[dkerins]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

How much are the 930's? I know you can get a pair of C42's for around $900. Are the Beyers comparable in price?

I just got a pair of 930's from FullCompass for around $730. Nobody else could come close to that price.
I gave them their first test run recording a small a cappella group in a large church. I had them in NOS about 10 feet out and 15 feet up, running through my Sytek pre. The sound was very real. So much so, that the choir director started to get nervous that the recording was too accurate for his inexperienced group. A little on the bright side, but it worked out to my advantage in this old church.

[jnorman]

a while back, i posted some comparative samples of ORTF pairs of MC930s, KM184s, and AT4051s on a flute and piano duo - these may be of some assistance in your decision.

you can listen to the samples here:
Comparative Samples - MC930, KM184, AT4051, and XXX

[r0ck1r0ck2]

ahh, lovely.

the more sound samples i hear, the better.

thank you sir.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by r0ck1r0ck2

ahh, lovely.

the more sound samples i hear, the better.

thank you sir.

A lot of samples with the 930 here

Here

JMM

[rmaier]

At the risk of simply chiming in on the Beyer love-fest....

I really love my MC930s, too. Used them as the main stereo pair in conjunction with SM81s for spot mics on a recent classical project here (sorry, they're not raw but they might give you an idea of how they might work for you):
The Oberon Guitar Trio - Music

Can't guess how they'll work for your app, but I've had no regrets about mine.

[Allen Rowand]

Originally Posted by r0ck1r0ck2

quick aside.
anyone know if it's possible to plug, say the live board, into the returns of the ULN-2d to get 2 extra sources?

No, it will just disconnect the mic pre from the convertor. There's only 2 channels of A/D in the ULN-2. For more analog ins you need an external A/D (or another MH interface ).

With a 2d box you could always insert a MIOStrip and use the EQ as a hipass filter before you send to your DAW.

The ULN-2 sounds great with ribbons- my favorite VO mic is an RCA that I had restored. A little EQ to cut some mids and it's golden.

Allen

[desotoslo]

you can't go wrong with the mc930 for remote work. they are pretty neutral and nice sounding. the top lift around 10k can be a bit much at times (for me) but once I EQ that down, I am quite happy with the results. thumbsup

they also seem rugged. for classical, it seems they are the budget choice... the c42 noise floor seems a bit high for quiet distance work?

[ddageek]

For me they are entirely two different flavors I own neither (way to many SDCs here) but from what I have heard of both its very much about what sonics are you looking for?
Rather than what SDC!