Recording Acoustic Guitar on a shoe string

neilsby · 6th May 2003, 12:54 PM

What technique would you employ if you had to record a steel strung acoustic guitar to accompany a voice. I have about £500 to spend on the mics for this job.

Thanks,

Neil (recording newbie, poor student)

mdbeh · 6th May 2003, 01:27 PM

An Audio Technica 4041 can work, and they're about $300 USD.

I'm not sure how much they are in the UK, but it should be well under your limit.

Mark · 6th May 2003, 01:45 PM

For that you could get a matched pair of Oktava MK012s with three capsules (Cardioid, Hypercardiod and Omni) from Digital Village.

Stizz · 6th May 2003, 06:12 PM

Wow!! I haven't heard of recording on a shoe string before - is that sort of like a modified wire recorder? Or maybe one of those new fiber optic shoestrings???

I like my Oktava 012s a lot, also you might want to look at a Neumann KM184, or some of the AKGs if you would like a larger diaphragm (C4000 ,SolidTube, C414 B-ULS)

Mic placement will make a big difference in the sound (the major factor still being the player and the instrument) - obviously brighter near the bridge, and warmer nearer the fingerboard (with more string squeaks) - some people like to record with 2 mics - experiment and see...

XHipHop · 6th May 2003, 06:24 PM

I usually use a combination of the Cad M-9 and Marshall MXL 603s mics. Great bang for the buck and great tones from both of those.

fishtop_records · 6th May 2003, 07:51 PM

I've found that good recordings of acoustic guitar
take good rooms. Better rooms make a difference.

Is this a one time deal? or does your 500 pounds
have to be usable again? for once only, you
should be able to rent some really nice mics and
still have money for dinner and a pint.

If you have to buy, the Oktava 012s are your
most likely bet (get them matched).

In the LDC world, there is always the SP C1 in your
budget range. But I'd go small diameter condensor,
or ribbon.

RSMITH123 · 6th May 2003, 08:27 PM

SP does have a new matched set of C-4's (Small diameter).

C-4 Matched Set

under 400$

I tried a SP C-1 & SM-81 combo and recorded the part twice in stereo. I ended up ditching the SM-81 tracks and keeping the C-1 tracks. After pulling 3-6 db's at 350 out and lifting 16k a little... it sounded great... for a shoestring budget.

Mark · 6th May 2003, 08:35 PM

Sound Sense has them (SP C4 pairs) for £270 including VAT and P&P.

sonic dogg · 6th May 2003, 09:17 PM

Lately I 've been getting sterling results with the Studio Projects B3 and an ADK SC-1 over the shoulder. These are both well within the budget and the B3 is a multi pattern which also stands up well as a vocal mic.

Saucyjack · 6th May 2003, 10:26 PM

Ditto on the Octava pair...they will be useful down the road as well...OHs,Percussion,Electric gtrs.

Mark · 6th May 2003, 10:29 PM

At only about £60 for the SC-1 from Turnkey (yes, I know they're not advertised on the site) and £125 for the B3 from Sound Sense you'd even have enough left over for a pair of the VTB-1 pre-amps

Mark · 6th May 2003, 10:41 PM

Which you can buy for £101 each (plus P&P) from Digital Village

Ted Nightshade · 7th May 2003, 01:14 AM

Rent some time in a great room with a great engineer? Seriously...

Mark · 7th May 2003, 07:35 AM

You wouldn't, by any chance, happen to be a member of the "Great Engineers With Great Rooms Guild". Would you?

Drumsound · 7th May 2003, 07:42 AM

I had really good luck this weekend using the new Rode NT5 stereo pair on acoustic guitar. They are my friends and I think he said he paid $300 USD. I'm not sure how that translates to pounds. AT Pro37R can also be had for around that price for a pair.

Mark · 7th May 2003, 07:54 AM

The NT5s go for around £240 over here. At that price he's only about £30 off of a pair of C4s, which also come with interchangeable card and omni heads; though, personally, I'd hold off buying any microphone until I'd seen at least one good field report from an unbiased source.

neilsby · 7th May 2003, 08:51 AM

How do the C451Bs fare in this? I've read good things about them but nobody has recommended them to me so i'm worried! The guitar project is with my own band and thus its not critical i get it right the first time. The main reason for doing it is to gain the experience, learn my way around logic more, have fun and generally progress! A great engineer and a great room would be brilliant and i've done that before but its not sustainable and it wouldn't help me learn.

How do Neve VR faders realise when its not your finger touching? Prod them with a pen and they don't come alive, strange!

Curious G · 7th May 2003, 03:46 PM

another vote for the mc012

Jay Kahrs · 8th May 2003, 04:12 AM

AKG 451's are freakin' great on acoustic guitar if you want a bright sound. If you want something mellow to tone down finger noise or add beef to a thin guitar you may not like them. Also, don't run them into a thin preamp like a Mackie or you'll be pretty sorry.

One of my MC012 bodies died the other day. Damn. Well, what do I want for $150? I got 3-4 years out of it so I guess I can't complain too much.

max the mac · 8th May 2003, 02:17 PM

Digital Village currently have the last stocks of the Groove tubes GT33 on offer....
you can get a pair for £239.99
Use them as a cross axial pair and just try wiping the grin off yer face.....

best buy around for Mics at the moment....

They have loads of other uses too...... and Don't get sneered at by Pro's......

In fact there are a number of "High end" users that swear by them.....

Best regards
Max
(and yes i own one, and no i dont work for DV)

StuartMac · 12th May 2003, 08:00 PM

Max, have you tried the 33s with omni capsules fitted? I'm thinking about ordering a pair to go with my 33s, but they will cost almost the same as I paid for the mics!

max the mac · 12th May 2003, 08:25 PM

Hi Stuart

I'm afraid not old chap.

I Do use the GT67 Valve groove tubes mic for omni, and very nice it is too!

I note that Dv have one or two of these for £349 .
I cant tell you how impressed i am with it!! suffice to say It's probably the best mic I've ever bought under a grand.
Superb on vocals...
Almost as if it has a built in d-esser. smooth but superbly detailed and open.

I bought the 33 specifically for acoustic guitar, although like i said, it has many other uses. (brushed jazz snare for example worked nicely using this)

Although I can see the advantage of having the option, I'd prefer to have more Mics!! Gear lust is a constant battle of wills between my wallet and my heart....

Best regards
Max

toledo3 · 12th May 2003, 08:48 PM

On a shoestring? Try a pzm. Have a lot of money? Try a pzm. I thank Loudist for pointing this out to me, they are ****ing great on acoustic.

neilsby · 12th May 2003, 11:37 PM

I think i'm going to go with the NT5s, they've had some good reviews, reasonably priced and quite versatile.

A pzm would be great but i need a mic for more than just an acoustic guitar application, when i have 20 mics i'll get into that kind of stuff.

Would anyone care to suggest a good pair of preamps, we're not talking neve, maybe about £100 each.

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions thus far, i've investigated each of them. I'm put off by the Studio projects and Audio Technica stuff a bit. Where do they lie in the name prestige stakes? Are they good quality or the kind of thing you expect from grey imports?

Anyways, thanks again, i'll be sure to upload my produce for your critical ears, if you'd like, i reckon there should be a section dedicated to audio samples of peoples work, unless of course you can tune in on the radio and hear your stuff!! ENOUGH!

fishtop_records · 12th May 2003, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by neilsby

Would anyone care to suggest a good pair of preamps, we're not talking neve, maybe about £100 each.

How about an FMR RNP? less than $500 us$ for two
channels, not that much more than your budget.

I really like mine, what an improvement over
the preamps in my Mackie.

neilsby · 12th May 2003, 11:50 PM

a) Because everyone in Led Zeppelin did apart from the bassist, and bassists are normally the least cool part of a band (my other half being the exception and any bassists reading this).

b)To fund my addicition to sound recording equipment collecting.

I might just try and pick some gear up second hand, if anyone has a good deal they're bursting to share with me, i'd be glad to consider.

More companies should offer student discounts!

max the mac · 12th May 2003, 11:58 PM

I recently picked up another pair of focusrite green Mic pre's for under 200 quid....
No you cant have em.
But they are very worth looking for if you can get em around that money...

neilsby · 13th May 2003, 12:04 AM

Has anyone seen the relatively new Presonus tubepre? It looks pretty good and for around £100 you have to wonder if the quality is there. Has anyone tried one out? I don't think there have been any major reviews yet.

Where do you look for your second hand stuff? I frequent Loot, Ebay and sospubs a fair bit but theres never anything of a real bargin quality, i'm still waiting for the day when somebody sells me a Gibson acoustic at a car boot for £4 because they know not what they have!! One day.

Are the focusrite greens one of their older series? Theres a couple of the eq strips about, haven't seen any pres.

max the mac · 13th May 2003, 12:14 AM

I do the ebay thing... there were some Pre's there a week or two back...
also Alison and Andy Allen at gear-online are sometimes a good source of stuff
check their site.
http://www.gearonline.co.uk/

Also Sound on Sound readers ads..... but you have to scan them regularly...
I have found some cracking bargains there over the years....
(how about a TLA indigo compressor for £165 !!!!! MINT!!! NOW that was a bargain!)

max

neilsby · 13th May 2003, 12:28 AM

I just found a focusrite platinum compressor on Turnkey for £0, so naturally i ordered it to see what would happen, if it works out, it will cost me £9.99!! Not bad, i am of no belief what so ever that they are going to sell it to me, still!

I looked at gearonline but i can't seem to find a preamp section.

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6th May 2003, 12:54 PM	#1
neilsby Gear nut Join Date: May 2003 Location: London Posts: 94	Recording Acoustic Guitar on a shoe string What technique would you employ if you had to record a steel strung acoustic guitar to accompany a voice. I have about £500 to spend on the mics for this job. Thanks, Neil (recording newbie, poor student)

6th May 2003, 06:12 PM	#4
Stizz Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA USA Posts: 246	Wow!! I haven't heard of recording on a shoe string before - is that sort of like a modified wire recorder? Or maybe one of those new fiber optic shoestrings??? I like my Oktava 012s a lot, also you might want to look at a Neumann KM184, or some of the AKGs if you would like a larger diaphragm (C4000 ,SolidTube, C414 B-ULS) Mic placement will make a big difference in the sound (the major factor still being the player and the instrument) - obviously brighter near the bridge, and warmer nearer the fingerboard (with more string squeaks) - some people like to record with 2 mics - experiment and see... __________________ Steve Doppler Studios

6th May 2003, 07:51 PM	#6
fishtop_records Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outside Washington DC Posts: 155	I've found that good recordings of acoustic guitar take good rooms. Better rooms make a difference. Is this a one time deal? or does your 500 pounds have to be usable again? for once only, you should be able to rent some really nice mics and still have money for dinner and a pint. If you have to buy, the Oktava 012s are your most likely bet (get them matched). In the LDC world, there is always the SP C1 in your budget range. But I'd go small diameter condensor, or ribbon. __________________ pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc

6th May 2003, 09:17 PM	#9
sonic dogg Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: pacific northwest Posts: 481	Lately I 've been getting sterling results with the Studio Projects B3 and an ADK SC-1 over the shoulder. These are both well within the budget and the B3 is a multi pattern which also stands up well as a vocal mic. __________________ the clubhouse studio....home of drool'n dogg rekords

6th May 2003, 01:27 PM	#2
mdbeh Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 433	An Audio Technica 4041 can work, and they're about $300 USD. I'm not sure how much they are in the UK, but it should be well under your limit.

6th May 2003, 01:45 PM	#3
Mark Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: I'm Behind You! Oh, okay, I'm in England. Posts: 357	For that you could get a matched pair of Oktava MK012s with three capsules (Cardioid, Hypercardiod and Omni) from Digital Village.

6th May 2003, 06:24 PM	#5
XHipHop Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,020	I usually use a combination of the Cad M-9 and Marshall MXL 603s mics. Great bang for the buck and great tones from both of those.

6th May 2003, 08:27 PM	#7
RSMITH123 Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS Posts: 168	SP does have a new matched set of C-4's (Small diameter). C-4 Matched Set under 400$ I tried a SP C-1 & SM-81 combo and recorded the part twice in stereo. I ended up ditching the SM-81 tracks and keeping the C-1 tracks. After pulling 3-6 db's at 350 out and lifting 16k a little... it sounded great... for a shoestring budget.

6th May 2003, 08:35 PM	#8
Mark Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: I'm Behind You! Oh, okay, I'm in England. Posts: 357	Sound Sense has them (SP C4 pairs) for £270 including VAT and P&P.

6th May 2003, 10:26 PM	#10
Saucyjack Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Knoxville,Tn Posts: 569	Ditto on the Octava pair...they will be useful down the road as well...OHs,Percussion,Electric gtrs. __________________ If you really want to make orginal results,work fast and cheap,because there's more of a chance that you'll get somewhere that nobody else did. Brian Eno

6th May 2003, 10:29 PM	#11
Mark Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: I'm Behind You! Oh, okay, I'm in England. Posts: 357	At only about £60 for the SC-1 from Turnkey (yes, I know they're not advertised on the site) and £125 for the B3 from Sound Sense you'd even have enough left over for a pair of the VTB-1 pre-amps

6th May 2003, 10:41 PM	#12
Mark Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: I'm Behind You! Oh, okay, I'm in England. Posts: 357	Which you can buy for £101 each (plus P&P) from Digital Village

7th May 2003, 01:14 AM	#13
Ted Nightshade Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: state of jefferson Posts: 1,328	Rent some time in a great room with a great engineer? Seriously...

7th May 2003, 07:35 AM	#14
Mark Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: I'm Behind You! Oh, okay, I'm in England. Posts: 357	You wouldn't, by any chance, happen to be a member of the "Great Engineers With Great Rooms Guild". Would you?

7th May 2003, 07:42 AM	#15
Drumsound Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 3,585	I had really good luck this weekend using the new Rode NT5 stereo pair on acoustic guitar. They are my friends and I think he said he paid $300 USD. I'm not sure how that translates to pounds. AT Pro37R can also be had for around that price for a pair. __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake

7th May 2003, 07:54 AM	#16
Mark Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: I'm Behind You! Oh, okay, I'm in England. Posts: 357	The NT5s go for around £240 over here. At that price he's only about £30 off of a pair of C4s, which also come with interchangeable card and omni heads; though, personally, I'd hold off buying any microphone until I'd seen at least one good field report from an unbiased source.

7th May 2003, 08:51 AM	#17
neilsby Gear nut Join Date: May 2003 Location: London Posts: 94	C451Bs? How do the C451Bs fare in this? I've read good things about them but nobody has recommended them to me so i'm worried! The guitar project is with my own band and thus its not critical i get it right the first time. The main reason for doing it is to gain the experience, learn my way around logic more, have fun and generally progress! A great engineer and a great room would be brilliant and i've done that before but its not sustainable and it wouldn't help me learn. How do Neve VR faders realise when its not your finger touching? Prod them with a pen and they don't come alive, strange!

7th May 2003, 03:46 PM	#18
Curious G Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 318	another vote for the mc012

8th May 2003, 02:17 PM	#20
max the mac Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Oxford UK Posts: 83	Just to be different Digital Village currently have the last stocks of the Groove tubes GT33 on offer.... you can get a pair for £239.99 Use them as a cross axial pair and just try wiping the grin off yer face..... best buy around for Mics at the moment.... They have loads of other uses too...... and Don't get sneered at by Pro's...... In fact there are a number of "High end" users that swear by them..... Best regards Max (and yes i own one, and no i dont work for DV) __________________ chill out, have a beerr, coz max woz ere....

12th May 2003, 08:00 PM	#21
StuartMac Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 810	Max, have you tried the 33s with omni capsules fitted? I'm thinking about ordering a pair to go with my 33s, but they will cost almost the same as I paid for the mics!

12th May 2003, 08:25 PM	#22
max the mac Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Oxford UK Posts: 83	Hi Stuart I'm afraid not old chap. I Do use the GT67 Valve groove tubes mic for omni, and very nice it is too! I note that Dv have one or two of these for £349 . I cant tell you how impressed i am with it!! suffice to say It's probably the best mic I've ever bought under a grand. Superb on vocals... Almost as if it has a built in d-esser. smooth but superbly detailed and open. I bought the 33 specifically for acoustic guitar, although like i said, it has many other uses. (brushed jazz snare for example worked nicely using this) Although I can see the advantage of having the option, I'd prefer to have more Mics!! Gear lust is a constant battle of wills between my wallet and my heart.... Best regards Max __________________ chill out, have a beerr, coz max woz ere....

12th May 2003, 08:48 PM	#23
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,189	On a shoestring? Try a pzm. Have a lot of money? Try a pzm. I thank Loudist for pointing this out to me, they are ****ing great on acoustic.

12th May 2003, 11:37 PM	#24
neilsby Gear nut Join Date: May 2003 Location: London Posts: 94	Looks like the NT5s I think i'm going to go with the NT5s, they've had some good reviews, reasonably priced and quite versatile. A pzm would be great but i need a mic for more than just an acoustic guitar application, when i have 20 mics i'll get into that kind of stuff. Would anyone care to suggest a good pair of preamps, we're not talking neve, maybe about £100 each. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions thus far, i've investigated each of them. I'm put off by the Studio projects and Audio Technica stuff a bit. Where do they lie in the name prestige stakes? Are they good quality or the kind of thing you expect from grey imports? Anyways, thanks again, i'll be sure to upload my produce for your critical ears, if you'd like, i reckon there should be a section dedicated to audio samples of peoples work, unless of course you can tune in on the radio and hear your stuff!! ENOUGH!

12th May 2003, 11:50 PM	#26
neilsby Gear nut Join Date: May 2003 Location: London Posts: 94	I should sell my soul to the devil a) Because everyone in Led Zeppelin did apart from the bassist, and bassists are normally the least cool part of a band (my other half being the exception and any bassists reading this). b)To fund my addicition to sound recording equipment collecting. I might just try and pick some gear up second hand, if anyone has a good deal they're bursting to share with me, i'd be glad to consider. More companies should offer student discounts!

12th May 2003, 11:58 PM	#27
max the mac Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Oxford UK Posts: 83	I recently picked up another pair of focusrite green Mic pre's for under 200 quid.... No you cant have em. But they are very worth looking for if you can get em around that money... __________________ chill out, have a beerr, coz max woz ere....

13th May 2003, 12:04 AM	#28
neilsby Gear nut Join Date: May 2003 Location: London Posts: 94	How about the Presonus Tubepre Has anyone seen the relatively new Presonus tubepre? It looks pretty good and for around £100 you have to wonder if the quality is there. Has anyone tried one out? I don't think there have been any major reviews yet. Where do you look for your second hand stuff? I frequent Loot, Ebay and sospubs a fair bit but theres never anything of a real bargin quality, i'm still waiting for the day when somebody sells me a Gibson acoustic at a car boot for £4 because they know not what they have!! One day. Are the focusrite greens one of their older series? Theres a couple of the eq strips about, haven't seen any pres.

13th May 2003, 12:14 AM	#29
max the mac Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Oxford UK Posts: 83	I do the ebay thing... there were some Pre's there a week or two back... also Alison and Andy Allen at gear-online are sometimes a good source of stuff check their site. http://www.gearonline.co.uk/ Also Sound on Sound readers ads..... but you have to scan them regularly... I have found some cracking bargains there over the years.... (how about a TLA indigo compressor for £165 !!!!! MINT!!! NOW that was a bargain!) max __________________ chill out, have a beerr, coz max woz ere....

13th May 2003, 12:28 AM	#30
neilsby Gear nut Join Date: May 2003 Location: London Posts: 94	Haha I just found a focusrite platinum compressor on Turnkey for £0, so naturally i ordered it to see what would happen, if it works out, it will cost me £9.99!! Not bad, i am of no belief what so ever that they are going to sell it to me, still! I looked at gearonline but i can't seem to find a preamp section.