Monitors in an Untreated room vs. In-Ear Monitors

[hydr0s0nic]

When I'm working in an untreated room I've been using some quality in-ear monitors to pull together rough mixes. I've heard a lot of people say that you have to use real speakers to hear how the stereo imaging of a mix sounds. I say, since i really know the frequency response of my in-ears, and the untreated room, They're the best option for me to go. Thoughts about the limitations of the in ears?

[Key]

Really use whatever you are acclimated to and tricks you into making the best mix. But ALWAYS check your mixes on other systems. Try to put the mixes in as many different scenerios you can envision the consumer using.

I tend to think if you look hard enough you can find limitations in any playback system when compared to another. There will always be tradeoffs. Sometimes it's better not to know the limitations because once you notice them it's hard to un-notice something. That's the only warning you will get because I am about to really mess up the in ear/headphone experience for you haha.

There are some big problem I have with in ear and headphones. The big thing I notice is a lack of realism. Instruments don't exactly sound real to me when using them - they sound like recordings of real instruments if that makes sense.

The other big thing that messes with me is "in head localization". Everything sounds like it is happening inside my head and not in the accoustic enviroment around me. There may be some ways to trick yourself and lessen this effect . When I was much younger I really liked listening to headphones laying on my back in a comfortable position. This is heading in the direction of a sensory deprivation chamber. Of course it would be very hard to devise a mixing station where you could lay down and mix at the same time haha.

Another weird thing I have noticed is the reversing and inverting of directionallity of panning. For instance a bi-naural head mic will give a great illusion of sounds circling the head and give the impression of a front and back center channel. Now the weird thing is when a sound moves in a circle I can make the same spinning sound with my mind move BOTH clockwise and counterclockwise. Sort of like that picture of a ballerinna that is spinning and you can make it look like it's spinning in both directions just by how you focus on it.

http://jaced.com/blogpix/2007/spinningballerina-001.gif

[Gonira]

when i was starting to learn this thing, i mixed with headphones a lot.

IT IS A PAIN.

it's possible, but it's very very difficult. i don't recommend, almost any speaker in an untreated room will give you a more accurate feel. stereo image is exxagerated. equalization is nearly impossible, because there's a feel (at least for me) that everything always sounds good. the biggest problem for me are the relative levels. you can't judge the instruments relative levels in headphones, they don't give you an accurate picture.

i recommend that you pick the best speakers you have, set them flat and put them in the right position for a mixing enviroment. use the earphones to check the bass and reverbs, go back to the speakers and adjust. the phones may seem more detailed, but almost always mixes made exclusively in headphones won't translate well to speakers, but the opposite usually happens.

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by hydr0s0nic

When I'm working in an untreated room I've been using some quality in-ear monitors to pull together rough mixes. I've heard a lot of people say that you have to use real speakers to hear how the stereo imaging of a mix sounds. I say, since i really know the frequency response of my in-ears, and the untreated room, They're the best option for me to go. Thoughts about the limitations of the in ears?

You'll be better off with using a set of monitors in the room. You ears will tire and grow accustomed to the in-ears which will cause all kinds of problems while mixing music. With nearfields, your ears can breathe and relax. At first, your mixes will suck, bottom line. At you learn how to mix and your monitors sweet spot, you'll be fine.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by Gonira

it's possible, but it's very very difficult. i don't recommend, almost any speaker in an untreated room will give you a more accurate feel. stereo image is exxagerated. equalization is nearly impossible, because there's a feel (at least for me) that everything always sounds good. the biggest problem for me are the relative levels. you can't judge the instruments relative levels in headphones, they don't give you an accurate picture.

That's pretty much where I'm at with it. A skilled engineer can come up with a good mix pretty much anywhere...the difference is how hard he/she has to work to get there. Mixing on headphones presents all kinds of distortions and unrealistic imagery. On the other hand, a terrible room presents all kinds of problems in terms of imaging, comb filtering and low end inaccuracies. Pick your poison.

I think it *tends* to be easier to come up with the right mix working at low volume using speakers in an untreated room (assuming that the skill level is up to par). Headphones are still useful for catching some details that may he hard to hear at low volume or because of low end masking in a small room.

Of course I have to add this: it's all easier in a treated room. thumbsup

Frank

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by hydr0s0nic

When I'm working in an untreated room

Why don't you just treat your room? Even a few bass traps and reflection panels will make a huge improvement in your ability to mix well.

--Ethan

[diogo_c]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Why don't you just treat your room? Even a few bass traps and reflection panels will make a huge improvement in your ability to mix well.

--Ethan

+1 on that.

[thefoxbox]

I would agree that achieving a good mix on headphones requires a lot of work. One of the tricks I use is a stereophonic-to-binaural plugin on the master bus. It helps my ears from getting quickly fatigued and lightens up the exaggerated stereo imagery.

This article does a good job at explaining it's benefits:

Bauer stereophonic-to-binaural DSP

[Leon EA]

I don't trust things in my ear that might go too loud when something breaks somewhere.
I've had plugins spitting out noise or static @ 0 dBFS before (probably turning all the 24+8 bits to value 1)- regular headphones & monitors are dangerous enough in such cases.

[Pies]

I personally cant mix well with headphones
throughout a mix I use my headphones to pick up on fine details and I also use them when I'm checking my mixes back on different systems.

but my mixing is pretty much all done with monitors, I just dont think mixing in cans is reliable enough but then there is always the argument whos the end listener??
If your mixes are gonna be played back through headphones and in ear monitors then mixing purely with in ear monitors would make alot of sense.

I think the best thing to do is stick up some basic treatment, throw up some duvets, build some panel absorbers and mix through your monitors.
You will achieve a much better mix with your monitors and a lightly treated room than you ever would on in ears or in a room with no treatment at all.

[MikeFFG]

Before I treated my room, I mixed a lot on headphones...really top notch ones...Ultrasone Pro-750s...they kick ass and I think i ended up with some good mixes, but my ears got fatigued VERY VERY easily. It was a huge pain in the ass. Now that I have a treated room and good monitors, I definitely prefer them by far, but I always love checking mixes on the headphones because I'm so accustomed to them now.

[jrm1]

Perhaps the best investment for the money would be a pair of Auralex pads under the monitors - tightens everything and you get far less transmission into the floor.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by MikeFFG

Before I treated my room, I mixed a lot on headphones...really top notch ones...Ultrasone Pro-750s...they kick ass and I think i ended up with some good mixes, but my ears got fatigued VERY VERY easily. It was a huge pain in the ass. Now that I have a treated room and good monitors, I definitely prefer them by far, but I always love checking mixes on the headphones because I'm so accustomed to them now.

Totally agree. That's pretty much how I do things as well.

Frank

[loh90]

My mixing room is pretty shitty acoustically. I can get decent mixes out of them just because I'm use to them, but I always go back and check them in my AKG k240 headphones. If the room is completely not suitable for mixing, then I will just mix through my headphones. I swear by the AKG's and can get good mixes out of them. Best phones in the price range and extremely comfortable and easy to listen to for long periods of time