Comments please on this proposed live recording rig

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Hey guys,

I'm currently setting up a live recording rig for a new project. I'd be working with the FOH sound guy, taking direct feeds from the board. The idea is to get everything recorded as cleanly as possible, so the gigs can be mixed later for a dvd & web project. So far, this is what I'm thinking of for my budget (around £4k):

Macbook pro 15" 2.53GHz, 4Gb, 320Gb HD, running Cubase 5

MOTU 828Mk3, with Behringer ADA8000, for another 8 analogue channels via ADAT

Recording to a Glyph GTO62 1TB HD (in RAID 1 mode)

MOTU, ADA8000 and Glyph mounted in a Gator G-Shock 4U case

This would mean daisychaining the MOTU and Glyph HD to the Macbook's single FW800 port, using an 800-400 adaptor -- would this work ok for, say recording 16 channels at 24/48k simultaneously, glitch-free?

Now, the ADA8000 only works at up to 48k samplerates --- are many live dvds using 96k audio, or will 48k be sufficient?

Also, I have a pair of Sennheiser HD-380 phones, which I'm assuming should be sufficient for monitoring while recording, or should I be looking at a set of small monitors too?

I would also be looking to use this rig for capturing smaller, mostly acoustic performances (mostly outdoor) so any mic advice would be good too.

Cheers,
Richard

[huub]

Well why not really, although I talked to an ex collegue who had built a little recording set up with behringer ada8000's and a couple of rosendahl nanodrives, and his comment about the behringers was " they're fantastic!.... Only they break ALL the time.."
So he was going to replace them with an alternative..

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Yeah, there is always the worry with Behringer stuff that the quality may be a bit lacking! What did your friend replace them with, cause I can't really find anything else that does the same job for anything around the same price.

[huub]

Same price, nooooo... Impossible I assume he bought something more expensive, haven't talked to him about it..

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

lol, thought not --- was hoping maybe there was some gem I had missed, but sadly not it seems. Well, I think I'll prob take the risk on one - at £140, I spose it's not the end of the world if I only get a year or two out of it!

Otherwise, you reckon my proposed setup would be the best I could do for the money?

Cheers

[gareth.h.rees]

Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz

lol, thought not --- was hoping maybe there was some gem I had missed, but sadly not it seems. Well, I think I'll prob take the risk on one - at £140, I spose it's not the end of the world if I only get a year or two out of it!

No, but it might be the end of your work if it breaks in the middle of a set :D

[Drum9uy]

I know a friend who bought an ada, i told him to get something better but he was in a crunch...in less than a year it broke.

go up a step and you'll be much happier. Also being in the remote section, the next thing to mention is backups. Even having a 2track taking a mix is better than losing the multitrack and having nothing.

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Yeah, losing the 8 tracks on the ADA would be a bit disastrous mid-set!

What would you guys suggest instead? I basically want to be able to record 16 simultaneous tracks, and the ADA was the only thing I could find within budget to add the further 8 tracks I need, but if you can suggest something that's not a huge amount more, I'd def consider it.

Regarding backup -- I forgot to mention in my original post --- I have a Roland VS 1680, so was planning on running it as a backup recorder --- is there a simple way to split the signals going to the MOTU and ADA to get the full 16 tracks into the Roland, or would I be safer just taking a stereo mix from the desk?

Really appreciate the help guys --- I'm a studio guy, and this'll be my first real foray into live recording (a good opportunity came up) so want to make sure I get it right!

[videoteque]

MacBook £750
Logic Express £160
METRIC HALO MOBILE I/O 2882 £1350
RME ADI 8 DS £1100
LaCie rugged £110

TOTAL: £3500

Richard, you should read well, 4K£ are a lot of money and gives you a lot of possibilities.

I would go RME or Metric Halo over Motu for several reasons, driver's stability being the first, the single most important thing of any interface. You can get one interface (2882 or RME FF800) + one converter (RME ADI 8 DS). Or you can get two interfaces! Read the forums, everybody is in love with their Metric Halos. Plus they have a free app that do multi-track which is very stable. Plus when you start making money, you can buy a +DSP license and use their nice plug-ins...

Getting a Mac is a good step for stability, I would buy a MacBook + a monitor you leave at home for editing. Plenty powerful for audio! You can perfectly record in the MacBook drive (use this calculator to see), 16 tracks of 96Khz/23bit is 5MB/s, any external USB drive or (if you want to go solid state) serious pen can give you that! The LaCie rugged should be more "on location" resistant than a regular drive.

Don't forget a nice case/bag that can transport everything safely and you are done!!!

BTW, I have a MacBook and an RME Fireface 800, I am happy with both!

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Hey Xavier,

That's a pretty appealing setup actually - never used any of the Metric Halo stuff, so kinda overlooked it when I was spec'ing. I did consider the FF800, and now I'm not so sure why I went for the MOTU!

I'm gonna have a look today, and maybe revise my setup, watch this space....

Thanks everyone for your input so far!

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Right, I've had another shop around, and I'm now maybe thinking of the following:

Macbook Pro 13" (going for the Pro, as it has a FW800 port)
2 x RME Fireface 800
Glyph GTO62 1TB --- as the Macbook Pro drive is only 5400rpm, and the Glyph can be setup in RAID 1, for real-time backup.

Just want to check --- I will be able to use the 2 FF800's and the Glyph drive all on the one FW800 port, right? Or is that likely to be a problem?

[huub]

Should work no problem.. But it's computers, you're never really sure

[c.gymer]

With your budget I would go with 2 Metric Halo 2882s (about £1500 each for the non DSP version), and grab a standard macbook and an external drive. I know this site is all about subjective personal opinions but the Metric Halo stuff is utterly amazing, and I don't think anybody here would disagree. This would give you a pretty much future proof setup with the Metric Halo gear, along with 8 mic amps per unit on board (don't be put off by the TRS connections on the back, they are fully featured mic amps), as well as ADAT, SPDIF and AES digital connections and a fantastic on board mixer. All this and a highly respected customer service department!

Do some serious searching on here and get down to KMR and have a serious look at the 2882. I'm switching to a Mac and Metric Halo combination as soon as I can afford it.

As always YMMV.

[videoteque]

Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz

Macbook Pro 13" (going for the Pro, as it has a FW800 port)

2 x RME Fireface 800

Glyph GTO62 1TB --- as the Macbook Pro drive is only 5400rpm, and the Glyph can be setup in RAID 1, for real-time backup.

Just want to check --- I will be able to use the 2 FF800's and the Glyph drive all on the one FW800 port, right? Or is that likely to be a problem?

The MacBook Pro definitely looks Proer... ;-DD

2xRME FF800 should work no problem, but you should better investigate the RME forums and try to check if someone already has this configuration and works.

The RAID 1 as a semi-back-up may not be a bad idea...

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by c.gymer

With your budget I would go with 2 Metric Halo 2882s (about £1500 each for the non DSP version), and grab a standard macbook and an external drive. I know this site is all about subjective personal opinions but the Metric Halo stuff is utterly amazing, and I don't think anybody here would disagree. This would give you a pretty much future proof setup with the Metric Halo gear, along with 8 mic amps per unit on board (don't be put off by the TRS connections on the back, they are fully featured mic amps), as well as ADAT, SPDIF and AES digital connections and a fantastic on board mixer. All this and a highly respected customer service department!

Do some serious searching on here and get down to KMR and have a serious look at the 2882. I'm switching to a Mac and Metric Halo combination as soon as I can afford it.

As always YMMV.

What he said. I've been using a 2 MH box setup (with an RME Octamic for the third bank of 8 pres) and it's been great. Last spring I moved up to a ULN-8 to replace one of the 2882s and I know a lot of people are doing the same, so a used 2882 shouldn't be hard to find at a great price. When you get some money together, get the 2d upgrade. It's well worth it and then you'll have a killer rig.

Edwin

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

This is great guys, thanks a lot for all your input, it's much appreciated!

Ok, if I go the Metric Halo route, I can get 'em for just over £1300 each from Thomann. edwinhurwitz, is this the 2d upgraded version you mean?

METRIC HALO MOBILE I/O 2882 EXPANDED 2D - U.K. International Cyberstore

I'm a little worried about FW bandwidth though --- if I go for a regular Macbook (not the new unibody obviously!) it only has one FW 400 port. Now, I have had 45 24/48k audio tracks playing back on a Macbook's internal drive before, but obviously 160GB is gonna run out pretty fast, so I'd need an external -- still thinking of the Glyph, which can be run in RAID 1, for a little extra security, but do you guys reckon there will be enough bandwith to run two 2882's (all 16 tracks) and a hard drive on the same FW400 port? I know there are peoople who do do this, but I'm just curious if anyone has used this exact setup, as I don't want any surprises!

Cheers,
Richard

[noamraz]

Raid systems - Are they safe enough?

When one of the drives will fail
1. Will it keep with recording without a glitch ?
2. Will the file-system survive with no need for special recovery procedure afterall?

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Well, the RAID 1 mode on the Glyph has a diak manager app, that instantly notifies you of a drive failure, so as long as both the drive in the enclosure dont fail at the same time, I should be able to finish the gig, and not lose any data. I wouldn't use a RAID 0 setup or anything, as that's asking for trouble!

I'm planning on running a Roland VS 1680 anyways, as a stereo recorder, so if the worst happens, there's always that to fall back on.

So yeah, I think you guys have sold me on the 2882's --- just need to hear from anyone out there that's using the same (or similar setup) ---- 2 2882's and a hard drive, all on the single FW400 port on the Macbook..... Anyone?

[MaTr1x2051]

Do you have a studio to mix the work in already? With a computer and all necessarry components? If you do, just get an HD24. They sound great and do everything you'll need for the gig. AND a much cheaper solution. Then get a computer component to hot-swap SATA drives externally and you'll be able to load up a full 24 track session in minutes. No risk, no need to bring the computer with, easier to set up, and next to no transfer time.

[videoteque]

Metric Halo's are Firewire 400, you won't get any benefit going with Firewire 800 on your computer...

I have a MacBook myself and plan on upgrading the hard-disk, it should be easy. 100 pounds should buy you a lot of GBs if you decide to change and use the internal disk. If you can't get it to work (I seriously doubt it) you can always buy an external hard-disk.

Don't forget you can send more than a stereo to your Roland VS 1680 backup by using Metric Halo internal mixer. Your biggest weak point is power supply, nothing a good UPS can't handle.

You should check Metric Halo's forums if there could be a compatibility problem between 2882s and the new MacBooks!

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Thanks a lot guys for all your input, it's been very helpful. I'm just doing a bit of final reading and price checking, and then hopefully I'll have the final setup by the end of today! I'll let you know what I end up going for (although I think the Metric Halo's are in the lead atm )

Cheers
Richard

[Allen Rowand]

Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz

do you guys reckon there will be enough bandwith to run two 2882's (all 16 tracks) and a hard drive on the same FW400 port?

Richard,
While I haven't tested this exact configuration, you should be able to run 2 2882s and a drive on the same bus at 44.1 or 48k without problems. I'll be in the office tomorrow and will get B.J.'s thoughts.

Allen

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Thanks Allen, that would be much appreciated!

Richard

[Allen Rowand]

Richard,
Come out of the MBP into the Glyph on FW800, then out to the 2882s with an 800 to 400 cable. You'll have no problem recording 16 channels at 96k. If you record at 44.1-48k, you can record the ADAT channels as well for 32 tracks.

The important thing is to have the drive first in the chain, so it gets the full 800 bandwidth. Your other option would be to connect the drive via USB.

Allen

[NeedsMoreFuzz]

Thanks a lot for checking that for me Allen.

Richard