DPA 4061 On Orchestra

[rumleymusic]

I decided to get a pair of the 4061 mostly for spot micing, but I recently decided to try them as the main pair for an orchestra recording a couple weeks ago. (with a pair of NT5 (with nt45-o heads) flanks lightly mixed in)

The DPA's are rather noisy on distance applications, and the hall had a constant air conditioning hum, so I decided to go ahead and use noise reduction for the sample.

I am quite satisfied with the results, please let me know what you think.

[just.sounds]

Why did you not choose the 4060 wich il less noisy

[rumleymusic]

Why did you not choose the 4060 wich il less noisy

Only slightly louder (3dB). My preamps are very quiet, so the extra gain does not really add noise. All user reports I have seen, including an admission from DPA, was that the 4060 has rather major clipping problems when used on loud sources, like inside of a piano. Since using these mics close to the source was the main reason for my purchase, I opted for the 4061. They are more versitile.

[boojum]

I was cautioned by DPA that the 4061 was a wiser purchase for the reason of being able to handle louder sources. I am pleased with mine. I plan on doing very few nature recordings.

Your Beethoven is very nice. These are wonderful mics. A lovely recording. Can you fill us in on the venue, please?

[rumleymusic]

Your Beethoven is very nice. These are wonderful mics. A lovely recording. Can you fill us in on the venue, please?

Thank you. The recording was at the Balboa Theatre. A newly rennovated hall that used to be a Vaudeville house, attached to the famous Horton Plaza in San Diego. It was the first time I ever recorded in that hall. Quite nice acoustics I thought.

[didier.brest]

Very nice recording. Did you compare the 4060 and the NT45-0 ?

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

All user reports I have seen, unluding an admission from DPA, was that the 4060 has rather major clipping problems when used on loud sources, like inside of a piano.

I did not face this issue. Here attached two clips, one with the 4060s inside the piano located close to the frame holes, and the other one with Schoeps CMC6-MK21 outside the piano. The piano is a 7' grand. I played as loud as I can...
Note also that there is no more noise with the 4060s than with the MK21s in the silence at the end.

[aracu]

Wow, listened to the Beethoven, lovely sound! Those mini DPA mics have
a special quality for sure. Where were they relative to the orchestra?

[mljung]

Originally Posted by didier.brest

Very nice recording. Did you compare the 4060 and the NT45-0 ?


I did not face this issue. Here attached two clips, one with the 4060s inside the piano located close to the frame holes, and the other one with Schopes CMC6-MK21 outside the piano. The piano is a 7' grand. I played as loud as I can...
Note also that there is no more with the 4060s than with the MK21s in the silence at the end.

I've also tried the 4060 "inside" a Bösendorfer with a pianist that didn't hold her self back - no overloads at all...

[rumleymusic]

I wonder how loud one must be playing before you run into problems. Perhaps a closer placement to the hammers would resuld in a higher spl. It is good to see the clipping is not as big of an issue on acoustic instruments as I was led to believe.

Did you compare the 4060 and the NT45-0 ?

They are not really in the same sonic ballpark. The Rodes are richer, but not nearly as clear or as even across the frequency spectrum. I do think the Rodes are some of the best support mics you can get. They really flesh out the sound without taking over. The 4061 by themselves sounded great, but lacked a certain fullness (a problem with using any stereo pair by themselves).

Where were they relative to the orchestra?

I attached them to a hanging rig about 9-10 feet in front of the orchestra (second row of seats because that was the only place to hang them.) They were about 2 1/2' apart and about 9' above the stage floor. The Rodes hung about 9' to either side.

[sonare]

You can also try removing the grids. This takes out the slight rise at 12kHz and makes them ruler-flat.

OTOH flattening with PEQ removes the rise and the slight hiss.

Rich

[rumleymusic]

You can also try removing the grids. This takes out the slight rise at 12kHz and makes them ruler-flat.

For this I decided to keep them on for diffuse field compensation. I have used them a couple times on trumpet with the grids off, absolutely the best sound I have ever recorded for that instrument. No hint of distortion or harshness from the mic, just used a little HF rolloff and it was equal or better than any ribbon I have ever heard. I can't immagine how good this thing would sound on harsher sources like drums or guitar cabs.

Not sorry I bought it.

[JonesH]

I hope this isn't steering the thread in the wrong direction, but I was wondering what peoples experiences are with the smk 4061 kit? Two 4061 and a helluva lot of accessories. Was thinking of picking them up for stealth rigs, PZM:ing and outriggers perhaps...

[rumleymusic]

Originally Posted by JonesH

I hope this isn't steering the thread in the wrong direction, but I was wondering what peoples experiences are with the smk 4061 kit? Two 4061 and a helluva lot of accessories. Was thinking of picking them up for stealth rigs, PZM:ing and outriggers perhaps...

That is what I bought. As far as I am concerned, that is the only way to go. You need the XLR/Phantom power adapter to use these mics with a standard preamp anyway. The magnet mounts and boundary disks are must haves also.

[roonsbane]

Daniel Said:

All user reports I have seen, including an admission from DPA, was that the 4060 has rather major clipping problems when used on loud sources, like inside of a piano.

I have been told the exact opposite by the DPA rep at AES. He said that the 134 Max SPL of the 4060 was already soooooo ridiculously loud, DPA developed the 4061 for sticking in race car engines. Otherwise the 4060 will really take all but the most extreme levels. This confirmed my thinking when I bought my 4060. They have never given me any issues in this regard. On the other hand even with extremely quiet pre's, there is no avoiding that even 4060 are noisy mics and must be used with caution on particularly quiet sources.
Cameron

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

I decided to get a pair of the 4061 mostly for spot micing, but I recently decided to try them as the main pair for an orchestra recording a couple weeks ago. (with a pair of NT5 (with nt45-o heads) flanks lightly mixed in)

The DPA's are rather noisy on distance applications, and the hall had a constant air conditioning hum, so I decided to go ahead and use noise reduction for the sample.

I am quite satisfied with the results, please let me know what you think.

Sounds gr8

U gotta love the person that coughed so loudly...

[rumleymusic]

U gotta love the person that coughed so loudly...

Some hose brain in the first or second row was opening up a piece of candy or a cough drop through the entire opening of the first movement of the Beethoven, slowly and carefully so they wouldn't make a lot of noise, but the mics sure picked it up. Wouldn't recording live concerts be great if there were no audience?

[hbphotoav]

Here's another sample of 4061s over the orchestra (and choir, in this case). The event was the 2007 International Church Music Festival at Casino Konzerthaus in the Swiss capitol, Bern. Mics were 36" (.9m) spaced omni, centered 3-4' (1m) over the conductor's head. Preamps were Mackie Onyx 1220 onboard, AD was the onboard FireWire card, through Tracktion to hard drive. The choir was approximately 300 voices. Soloists were not spot mic'ed.

The selection is from the Schubert "Mass in b flat"

[boojum]

How can those damned little match heads sound so good! I am pleased with mine, for sure.

So far I have used them as AB to supplement an ORTF pull of a pop group. They were stellar on percussion, cymbals, especially. Ah lak 'em.

[Schaap]

Originally Posted by bcgood

U gotta love the person that coughed so loudly...

You can asked him to cough again but now 'out of phase'. I love the 4061. Recently bought a pair of used 4061 kits of a theatercompany in good shape.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

That is what I bought. As far as I am concerned, that is the only way to go. You need the XLR/Phantom power adapter to use these mics with a standard preamp anyway. The magnet mounts and boundary disks are must haves also.

I bought my 4061 pair used, with no accessories save the MicroDot amps. For mic'ing a grand piano, I've built (for about $6) my own mag mounts... small neodymium magnets and Velcro dots... work like a champ. One Velcro dot on the magnet, the opposite Velcro back-to-back to hold the mic wire in place.

For a spaced omni bar, I've been using a 36" (.9m) piece of 1/8" brass rod (Home Depot) with the tiny mics held by 1/4" strips of gaff tape. I run the rod through a Sabra elastic shock mount on top of a mic stand.

[aracu]

Originally Posted by hbphotoav

Here's another sample of 4061s over the orchestra (and choir, in this case). The event was the 2007 International Church Music Festival at Casino Konzerthaus in the Swiss capitol, Bern. Mics were 36" (.9m) spaced omni, centered 6' (1.8m) over the conductor's head. Preamps were Mackie Onyx 1220 onboard, AD was the onboard FireWire card, through Tracktion to hard drive. The choir was approximately 300 voices. Soloists were not spot mic'ed.

The selection is from the Schubert "Mass in b flat"

Yet another beautiful sounding recording with a pair of mini DPAs.

[chris319]

For a spaced omni bar, I've been using a 36" (.9m) piece of 1/8" brass rod (Home Depot) with the tiny mics held by 1/4" strips of gaff tape.

Nylon tie wraps would be more elegant, don't you think? They wouldn't leave behind a sticky residue.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by chris319

Nylon tie wraps would be more elegant, don't you think? They wouldn't leave behind a sticky residue.

Fresh gaff every time (no residue yet), and everything disappears. People have a hard time seeing anything atop the mic stand once the lights go down. Tie wraps would look hugely clunky by comparison... Photos attached. Remember: the brass rod is 1/8" diameter.

BTW, while I liked the stereo image from the Blumleined Fat Heads (this is the actual setup at Casino Konzerthaus), the HF response drop was significant enough to run the DPAs as the main pair in the final edit. It's got me thinking about ordering a couple of Lundahl transformers to bring that up a bit. I also often tape the 4061s to the tops of 11.5' (3.5m) Manfrottos as outrigger/"house" mics... and usually answer three or four concerned patrons who want to know if I've forgotten to put a mic on the top of the stand...

[boojum]

I rig mine the same way on a carbon fiber rod. The gaffers tape works just fine. And it does disappear along with the carbon fiber rod. I have them under an ORTF or MS Schoeps setup. It has worked well so far. As with all omni's, however, they are pretty room-dependant. I ran them outside with ORTF and they were not that good. I space them about 30cm/13".

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by hbphotoav

Here's another sample of 4061s over the orchestra (and choir, in this case). The event was the 2007 International Church Music Festival at Casino Konzerthaus in the Swiss capitol, Bern. Mics were 36" (.9m) spaced omni, centered 6' (1.8m) over the conductor's head.

This is a magnificent recording. Can you please clarify the height for me. Were the mics 1.8m above the floor or above the conductor’s head?

Many thanks
Larry

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by Larry Elliott

This is a magnificent recording. Can you please clarify the height for me. Were the mics 1.8m above the floor or above the conductor’s head?

Many thanks
Larry

The orchestra was on a 3'6" (1m) stage. The conductor was on a 2' (.5m) platform (dual 7' grand pianos were a featured part of the concert). The conductor (Sir David Willcocks) stands approximately 5'6" (1.6m) tall. The mics were (actually) approximately 1m over his head, and about a meter behind him (so neither he nor Paul Leddington Wright would whack it when they turned to the crowd and bowed). The mic stand was a 4m Manfrotto, on the floor.

[Larry Elliott]

Thanks for the clarification...

[rumleymusic]

The mics were (actually) approximately 1m over his head, and about a meter behind him (so neither he nor Paul Leddington Wright would whack it when they turned to the crowd and bowed). The mic stand was a 4m Manfrotto, on the floor.

Oh good, I figured that what you meant, and was astonished by the sound if that wasn't.

Was this sample a combination of the Fatheads and the 4061's or just 4061's?

[Corran]

This thread (and corresponding audio files) has gotten me interested in these DPA's. However, would they really be much different than Earthworks QTC-1's? Since I already have three. And I usually defend the QTC-1's self-noise of 21db, but did I read correctly that these have 26db?

My Earthworks have sometimes left me wanting, but, it's few and far between that I get to record in a really great hall. Of course I am and should be saving my pennies to get a pair of Schoeps omni caps, but I can't help be intrigued by these clips.

[boojum]

Specifications for 4061 Omnidirectional, Lo-Sens

Directional characteristics: Omnidirectional
Principle of operation: Pressure
Cartridge type: Pre-polarized condenser element with vertical diaphragm
Frequency range, ± 2 dB: Soft boost grid: 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 3 dB soft boost at 8 - 20 kHz. High boost grid: 20 Hz - 20 kHz ±2 dB, 10 dB boost at 12 kHz.
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 6 mV/Pa; -44.5 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4: Typ. 38 dB (max. 40 dB)
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 68 dB(A)
Total harmonic distortion (THD): <1% THD up to 123 dB SPL peak
Dynamic range: Typ. 97 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping: 144 dB
Output impedance: 30 - 40 Ohm
Cable drive capability: Up to 300 m (984 ft)
Power supply: Min. 5 V - max. 50 V through DPA adapter
Connector: MicroDot
Microphone weight: <7.5 g (0.26 oz) incl. cable and MicroDot
Microphone length: 12.7 mm (0.5 in)
Cable length: 1.8 m (5.9 ft)