Vocal Solo Mics - Choral and Orchestral works ???

[Larry Elliott]

I am wondering to folk leave vocal soloists mics on all the time or fade them in when required? If they are on all the time there will be no “ambience“ change during a solo, however the overall balance will always be “ affected” by the solo mic.

Up until now I have tended to leave them open all the time, and ride the gain as necessary during the solo.

Look forward to others comments.

Larry

[d_fu]

I leave them on. I try to keep my mixes as static as possible.

[jjb]

I'll almost always mute or fade down a mic that's not in use.

[Teddy Ray]

I dont do as many orchestral things now, but quite a bit of choral(and bluegrass!) .... but I always left mine on.

[fifthcircle]

For me, it depends on the amount and kind of bleed that they are giving me. If the solo mic is completely messing up my string sound with an orchestra, then I may be inclined to mute them. I won't do a hard mute, though- rather more like riding levels with slow changes to deal with sound shifts.

In the end, though, music rules and dictates what I do to them.

--Ben

[Corran]

It depends on the situation, but I think I've usually lowered the level when they weren't singing, especially if the vocal soloist(s) only sing a few things here and there.

[Drum9uy]

I had to do a few recordings of a bigband and the vocal mics were pointing right at the horns when they didn't have a singer in between them. I did some slow fades etc during some songs where she took a step out from the band for solos as to not suddenly change the mix. Play around with the mix and see what feels best

[boojum]

I judge it in post. They are on the whole session. I sure do not need the soloists' asides in the mix.

[ohmoka]

For classical -choral- stuff I leave them on

[NorseHorse]

Are we talking about live sound reinforcement?

Or mixing a recording?

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

Are we talking about live sound reinforcement?

Or mixing a recording?

Recording...

[jjb]

Originally Posted by Larry Elliott

Recording...

Oh, in that case, I leave them on. Never know if you'll get something useful out of it. For live work, though, my previous answer stands.

[David Spearritt]

Hi Larry, had this problem a few weeks ago, recording a large choir (4 mics), 4 vox soloists (4 mics) and small chamber orch (2 mics). Because the soloists were standing just in front of the first row of the choir, the vox spots when left in the mix picked up too much of the choir front rows.

I recorded with them on, (which rendered the stereo backup almost useless) and had to clip them all off in post. A very time consuming process as the score had lots of little interjections from the vox soloists.

Next time I will try to position the solo spots so I can leave them on. Getting a correct stereo mix is the most important thing on the night. Riding gain is a real gamble without a marked up score.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Hi Larry, had this problem a few weeks ago, recording a large choir (4 mics), 4 vox soloists (4 mics) and small chamber orch (2 mics). Because the soloists were standing just in front of the first row of the choir, the vox spots when left in the mix picked up too much of the choir front rows.

Of course, it always depends. In a situation like this, I would probably also reduce the solo mics' levels during choir passages, as David did.

Next time I will try to position the solo spots so I can leave them on.

Consider hypers, turned sideways a bit. Might reduce choir leakage. Or try to get a bit closer, if possible.

[Teddy Ray]

Heres a recording of the Blumlein Pair I used as for solo pickup for a Community Chorale/Orchestra type thing of Haydn Die Schöpfung

Hier

Picked up too much strings, though.

I was younger and dumber, anyway. Now I am a bit less dumb.

[Corran]

Interesting that the strings sound so much more present than the voices, to me. How was the stage and mics setup in relation to each other? And what mic? I'm interested.

Also I assume you are a bit less young as well...

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Corran

Interesting that the strings sound so much more present than the voices, to me. How was the stage and mics setup in relation to each other? And what mic? I'm interested.

Also I assume you are a bit less young as well...

Yes, I am 5 years older!
AKG 426B in blumlein.

it was

C H O I R

O R C H E S T R A
SOLOISTS


AKG

[Corran]

The strings sound like they are in front of the soloists rather than the other way 'round. How did that happen? *Actually re-listening it's not really that drastic but the voices do feel more "in the hall" than the strings.

I had a feeling it was an AKG. I have been hearing some samples of various stereo AKG condensers and wow, I love it. I need to get one. Or perhaps it's just the nice rooms they happen to be recording. It seems like even my Schoeps give a lackluster recording in these dead, boring halls around here.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Corran

The strings sound like they are in front of the soloists rather than the other way 'round. How did that happen? *Actually re-listening it's not really that drastic but the voices do feel more "in the hall" than the strings.

I had a feeling it was an AKG. I have been hearing some samples of various stereo AKG condensers and wow, I love it. I need to get one. Or perhaps it's just the nice rooms they happen to be recording. It seems like even my Schoeps give a lackluster recording in these dead, boring halls around here.

Jeesh, I dont know Corran, I guess maybe the very strange acoustic had something to do with it... Ill post pics if I get a chance and can find them..it was a WEIRD! acoustic.. The AKG 426(stereo mic) is an amazing microphone. I love the sound..very laid back and complimentary/forgiving. Too bad they dont make them anymore. I snapped up the last two ever made right before I left Germany. The AKG distro man actually drove them to me!

[Corran]

Wow, the last two?? I wonder why they stopped making them. I'd love to pick up a 426 or a c34 one day. I'd love to see pics if you find them.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Corran

Wow, the last two?? I wonder why they stopped making them. I'd love to pick up a 426 or a c34 one day. I'd love to see pics if you find them.

Well, the Distributor told me that they just were not selling, that they were not a "marketable item" any longer. (like the cheap crap they are making in China!!)

but yes, the last two..at least the last two to come from the Austrian Factory.

I highly reccomend grabbing a 422 or 426...(BTW Opus 3 recordings..(which I love so dearly) used a lone 426 ...many of them, anyway)

[Corran]

Any reason you prefer those over the c34? I've seen a few recommendations for both in different situations. I don't have any really bright mics so I think the c34 might work better in my mic closet as it is now, though I admit I wouldn't mind having both a c34 and a 422/426!

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

AKG 426B in blumlein.

How far in front of the Soloists was the mic.

Very nice sound indeed....

Thanks

Larry Elliott

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Larry Elliott

How far in front of the Soloists was the mic.

Very nice sound indeed....

Thanks

Larry Elliott

Oh, Id say about...oops.. dug out my notes on the PC .. says the Soloists were 4 ft away.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Corran

Any reason you prefer those over the c34? I've seen a few recommendations for both in different situations. I don't have any really bright mics so I think the c34 might work better in my mic closet as it is now, though I admit I wouldn't mind having both a c34 and a 422/426!

The C34 has a top capsule that can rotate 270 degrees and a bottom capsule that is fixed to the body of the mic. Both of the 426 capsules can rotate. The C-34 is a small diaphragm mic, while the 426 is LD. c34 is a LOT brighter.

[fifthcircle]

Yup... The C34 is a completely different sounding microphone. The 426 has an almost big "Wooly" dark sound (in the best of ways), whereas the C34 is a smaller sounding mic with a sparkle on top. Before my colleage that owned a couple C34s passed, I'd use them on drum sets on jazz dates, pianos (great for concertos), classical guitars, etc... The 426/422 (I own both here) gets duties for large ensembles, brass and other situations.

---Ben

[Corran]

Interesting. Well all this does is make me want both!

[Teddy Ray]

Different song, same Haydn different night....

das lied

[Corran]

Gorgeous sound.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Corran

Gorgeous sound.

You are too kind, Corran. I was a bit green then, and I just put the mics where I thought they sounded good. (I actually had John Eargle's books with me and a protractor/compass(!) to set the angles. I am still a green rookie in every since of the word.

thank you for your kind words, my friend.