Compressing Live Vocals

[esrever Reverb]

I'm using a Mackie CFX12 12-channel mixer to a power amp to anplify vocals in a rehearsal room setting. I'd like to use this Behringer Composer (MDX 2000) to prevent my mains from peaking, and to eliminate feedback and other neucances by using the gate. It doesn't seem like the limiter is working (double-checked to see that it was in)...the gate's alrite, like any gate tends to dull the sound a bit, which is okay. No matter how hard I tweak I just can't seem to get it to do what I want it to do. (Nice and loud with no feedback--am I asking too much?) My operating level is +4dBu on the unit. I went ahead and R'dTFM, but all it says is stuff like: "ohh look at how cool this unit isss!" Anyone have any recommendation?

[M4-10]

First: make sure your directional microphones are placed with the area of maximum rejection (ie: the back of the microphone) towards your speakers. In a small rehearsal space watch out for wall reflections that contribute to feedback (a blanket on the wall behind the vocalist can help).

Next: A cheap graphic eq to dial out the feedback and increase your gain. You can probably do without gating... it will just cause feedback to only happen when there is singing (the gate is open).

In live sound while the vocals may be compressed in the main speakers, they rarely are compressed in the monitors. Vocal compression in monitors is a quick recipe for feedback. You're getting a similar situation in your rehearsal space. The more you compress the more feedback you will get.

[Fash]

What kind of vocal mics are you using?

Steven
Jealousy Curve
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[dbbubba]

Gating really doesn't help eliminate feedback.
It can be used to turn off the signal when it's not in use and that might be when feedback is happening, but it is like putting a band aid on a wound that requires stitches.

Proper mics
Proper mic positioning
Proper system EQ/tonal balance

These will all go a long way towards addressing the problem.

If you are in a small rehearsal space and trying to get vocals above a drummer and a few GTRs and a bass player you will have problems unless they turn down.
You hear this all the time, but it is the only real solution.

What I would do is have your monitoring speakers set up as floor wedges.
The mic will be oriented properly in most usage and you will be working with a system that is close to what you will experience live.
It could give you experience at setting up a monitor rig properly anyways.

If you have speakers on stands (sticks) at ear level and microphone level you will have a lot more trouble bringing the level of the mics up to a decent level.

LET THE SOUND TRAVEL TO YOU.

Gates are just NOT thought of as a feedback fighting tool in modern or common sound system design.

[AnthonyRochester]

I was at a sound check once and the guy was using a digital mixer - the first thing he did was to have the drummer play one drum at a time, and he set up a gate on each mic. He gated everything individually when it was on its own. Then when the band played a song, everything started feeding back immediately. That is a lesson in how not to do it.

[esrever Reverb]

Originally Posted by Fash

What kind of vocal mics are you using?

Steven
Jealousy Curve
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SM58's and Beta 58's

[Aahzekiel]

Right on, I have almost the same setup for our rehearsals: a Mackie CFX16 and a Behringer compressor and EQ, and Mackie powered speakers. I'm getting decent (read: not painfully intolerable) results, and I'll share them in the hopes that someone comes along and goes "Yeah, that's cool and all, but if you did this it would be better."

I've played around and around and around with the setup, and this is what's working best for me so far in my small, single-room recording space:

Five-piece alt-ish-country-ish-rock band. 4 vocal mics (one at the drums), 3 guitars, bass, drums. The mics run through the Mackie and out the aux bus to a Behry EQ > Behry comp > Mackie powered speakers on the floor as wedges, one to the side of the drummer, one at the foot (feet?) of three vocal mics, just forward of the kick drum. Everyone's in a circle facing inwards, looking at each other. Small guitar amps, only have to be as loud as the drums. It's very important to - if you can - get everyone to turn down first, and turn up as it becomes clear you need a little more volume. It's amazing how simple that sounds and how no one does it. We've even talked about the necessity of doing it, and we rarely do it. Anyway.

The EQ is vital, every small room has its own particular nasty resonances. Find em, knock em down as much as possible. Beware reverb tails. The cheap behringer 31-band eq has feedback-detection, lights up whatever band is too loud. Helps. Use the graphic EQ for the rough work and then fine-tune for different singers and mics with the channel EQs on the mixer. I use the compressor as a gentle limiter, with no added gain. It just smoothes out the loudest material. This has seemed to help me a lot with feedback and the general feel of the sound, but any time I've tried to add gain at the compressor, it feeds back almost immediately.

Gain staging would appear to be all-important if you're in a small room with live speakers and mics. Go a little too far anywhere along the line, and pingpingping ow make it stop.

We're able to jam in here at comfortable levels using this setup. I haven't brought it around to being a sound I really like, but I'm working on it. We're not a metal band, but neither are we acoustic folkie types, we get loud; our music is guitar-heavy, we play small amps but turn 'em up, and while the vocals right now are sitting right on the edge of feedback, we're able to jam and have fun without worrying about headphones.

Any further advice on how to get a better sound out of this kind of setup is greatly appreciated.

-Trey

[Aahzekiel]

Also using 3 58's and one Beta58.

[strewnshank]

Forget the gates....use a 31 band EQ for each monitor and channel of FOH. In small rooms, expect big guts. Spending two minutes ringing out the room and monitors is the most important part the setup. You should rarely need a gate to get a show sounding good.

[Fash]

You should be able to get decent gain with those mics, though because they have different polar patterns their null points are going to be different. Beta 58s are super-card and SM58s are card.

We use a Beta 58 and two 57s in our rehearsal space for vox and it is fine. Mics to Mackie 1202 VLZ to JBL EON. Our lead singer is on ears which makes things much easier.

We just use a dbx 160A for light comp and a M2000 for FX processing.

Steven
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