Digital microphones

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Nityananda_SCSM

I'm very interested in digital microphones, and I hope Mr. Willett and others on this board can help me with some of my confusion.

I'm specifically interested in using two MKH8040s with the stereo cable going to the MZD8000 module.

I answered this mostly yesterday. The Sennheiser Press Release that mentions the MZLL 8003 Y-cable is HERE.

Originally Posted by Nityananda_SCSM

My main question is how can I record the mics if I don't have the Neumann DMI-2 ($1000) and a recorder that accepts AES/EBU.

I would want to record the mics using the Neumann SPDIF Connection Kit going to a SPDIF input since interfaces that include SPDIF are cheap.

However, how well will this work and what are the disadvantages compared to using the DMI-2 with AES/EBU?

For instance:
-How does one control the amount of gain? Do you still need to set levels?
-Is there an analog limiter that will prevent digital clipping? If so is it automatically active when using SPDIF and without changing settings using a DMI-2?
-Will the two tracks be in sync with each other and the rest of the analog tracks if I were using say a Edirol R44 or Tascam DR-680?

The Neumann connection kit only provides the 10V phantom power to the AES42 microphone and outputs as AES3.

There is no way to sync. a second kit (short of going through a sample-rate converter). So - this limits you to a single microphone, or a stereo pair of the MKH 8000 series through a single MZD 8000.

To prevent digital clipping yo do not put any gain at all into the microphone - the problem though, can then be monitoring as the signal could be quite quiet. There is no change in sound quality recorded whether you add gain in the microphone or in the DAW later. As the gain level can only be changed by a DMI-2 (or DMI-2portable due later this month, DMI-8 or RME842) it needs to be set when you order the mic. and can only be changed by someone with one of the above units if you want to change it later. I think I would only put 10dB of gain in the mic. if you want to add gain here to minimise the risk of clipping (it will all depend on the sort of music you are going to record). Or, maybe better, leave it at zero gain and get a good battery powered headphone amp. so raise the level so you can monitor properly while recording.

You set the recorder to clock to the MZD 8000 (ie: clock to external via the S-PDIF input if you decide on a recorder with S-PDIF) and everything should be in sync.


My own digital kit is:-
2 x Neumann KM-D
2 x KK 183-D diffuse field omni heads
2 x KK 131-D near field omni heads
1 x MKH 8040 stereoset
1 x Y-cable
1 x MZD 8000
1 x DMI-2
1 x Neumann "video" connection kit (the AES kit with a hirose connector to supply power directly from my Nagra VI recorder).

I plan to get two of the new DMI-2portable units when they come out to enable me to use four digital microphones together - these are DC powered and I am hoping that they can both be powered from the 12V hirose connectors on the Nagra VI. The voltage is OK and the Nagra can supply 1Amp (500mA via each connector) and Neumann are getting hold of a Nagra VI to make the tests to see if this is possible - I am keeping my fingers crossed).

I *have* used the MKH 8040 as an ORTF pair with Y-cable, MZD 8000 and connection kit and it works extremely well. I think I set a 10 or 15dB gain in the MZD 8000, but as I also have a DMI-2 I can change this at any time I want if I made a mistake.

I hope this helps.

(posted via a slow GPRS/3G roaming link)

[Nityananda_SCSM]

Thanks a lot John, very informative.
I hadn't read before that you don't need to apply any gain at the recording stage at all unless you plan on monitoring the signal through headphones. Thats pretty awesome. Allows complete control of dynamics in post

I would love to see some pics of your Rycote setup. I asked Rycote for the "Willett Special" for my mkh8040+mkh30+blimp+invision mounts and it's been working beautifully for almost a year now.

But I get the feeling I would rather have an ORTF 8040 + MZD8000. Thinking how small I could make such a thing with suspension and wind protection...

I have to say I wonder how the sound quality of the Sennheiser preamps/A/D/converters compare to what you would get if you ran the mics directly into a Sound Devices 744T.

And then I also wonder how the MKH8000 series digital mics sound quality would compare to Nagra, Sonosax, Deva, or the high end studio pres like Summit,Focusrite, etc with equivalent converters. Where $-wise does it start to make more sense to run the mics in analog to a high end pre/converter?

Interesting times for sure. I'm really excited for when they will start including AES42 inputs in camera bodies and figure out a way to power the mics for wireless transmission!

[John Willett]

I use my own MKH 8040 stereoset in ORTF on a Grace SpaceBar.

They will fit into a Rycote Stereo Extended Ball Gag in XY - the same as is used for the Schoeps. I just don't use mine this way.

The DAC that is part of the MZD 8000 is extremely good. I know Sennheiser did comparisons with very top end DACs before the design was finalised. I don't think you will be disappointed.

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