Digital microphones

[Fuzzy Logic]

side bar: it's great to see you here on this board Da-Hong Seetoo! I look forward to reading more of your thoughts in this forum!

[dseetoo]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Logic

side bar: it's great to see you here on this board Da-Hong Seetoo! I look forward to reading more of your thoughts in this forum!

Thank you for the warm welcome.


Da-Hong

[pro]

any new mics ?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by pro

any new mics ?

Current microphones I know of:-

Schoeps CMD-2 for their interchangeable head series and the new SuperCMIT.

Neumann D-01, KM-D series (about 7 heads for this now, I think and also the KM-A if you want to use the heads in analogue), TLM 103-D - I think Neumann are planning to add to this as I have seen some other samples at shows.

Sennheiser MKH 8000 series with the MZD 8000 module - that's the 8020, 8040, 8050, 8060 and 8070 heads (the last two due soon). I think Sennheiser can also do an adaptor for the MKH 800 TWIN (as the MZD 8000 is 2-channel). I use an ORTF pair of 8040 through a single MZD 8000.

I suspect other manufactures are looking into it. I would not be surprised if Gefell didn't do something as they already do an AES42 measurement mic. and it would be easy for them to develop that for the recording mics.

[aracu]

"I use an ORTF pair of 8040 through a single MZD 8000.'

An interesting way to cut down on the bulk of external preamps.

[Teddy Ray]

Holy smokes.

Mr. Seetoo, another elite classical producer. Thank you for gracing us with your presence, Sir! (if you read this at all still)


thumbsup

[panatrope]

Originally Posted by John Willett

I use an ORTF pair of 8040 through a single MZD 8000.

Still no sign of this adaptor cable on the Sennheiser site, or a description of how the 2-channel capacity of the MZD8000 can otherwise be used.

Is the 2-channel capacity used to advantage with a single capsule (both converters used in balanced mode to improve noise or linearity)? I note one performance spec refers to 'mono mode' - is it different when in stereo mode?

For interest only, until the 8030 capsule appears ...

[pro]

I'm actually happy to record mono. So, I don't care about the AES 42 boxes.

However, I'd like to record straight into the Optical SPDIF port on a MBP or connect direct to a 30-pin iphone!


If I could record in HiFi with an SDC on the road, with no pre-amp, no extra usb/firewire soundcard...just wow!!!

Oh, one can dream...Any ideas???

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by pro

Oh, one can dream...Any ideas???

A Neumann KMD mic with the SPDIF adaptor and a digital recorder with a SPDIF input ?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by panatrope

Still no sign of this adaptor cable on the Sennheiser site, or a description of how the 2-channel capacity of the MZD8000 can otherwise be used.

Is the 2-channel capacity used to advantage with a single capsule (both converters used in balanced mode to improve noise or linearity)? I note one performance spec refers to 'mono mode' - is it different when in stereo mode?

For interest only, until the 8030 capsule appears ...

This is where Sennheiser are being rather silly.

The Y-cable is special order only - you need two of the screw connectors that go onto the heads to one of the connector that goes onto the XLR module (for the MZD 8000) - cable length should be 10cm I think.

This cable is also great for putting a pair of mics in analogue down a single floor stand.

But you have to ask for it to be made specially by Sennheiser.

I have suggested to them, many times, that this should be listed as a standard product. But, so far......

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by pro

I'm actually happy to record mono. So, I don't care about the AES 42 boxes.

However, I'd like to record straight into the Optical SPDIF port on a MBP or connect direct to a 30-pin iphone!


If I could record in HiFi with an SDC on the road, with no pre-amp, no extra usb/firewire soundcard...just wow!!!

Oh, one can dream...Any ideas???

Originally Posted by didier.brest

A Neumann KMD mic with the SPDIF adaptor and a digital recorder with a SPDIF input ?

All digital mics are AES42 - so you *have* to have a converter if your recorder won't take AES42.

The easy way for mono is the Neumann connection kit (Schoeps do one as well) which converts AES42 to AES3 or S-PDIF and use a single digital mic.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by John Willett

All current digital mics are AES42

There - corrected it for you...
Ye aulde Beyer MCD 100, 101, etc. connect straight to AES/EBU. Very hard to find these days, though. I have three and I really like them...

[pro]

Thanks John and Dider,

So the smallest recorder with SPDIF in I could find was the M-Audio Microtrack II. Would this with a Neumann KMD mic and the SPDIF adapter work well for mono? Any other small recorders out there with SPDIF in? I have not heard good things about the Microtrack.The sony units have optical...

I wish Neumann made a SPDIF optical adapter for the KMD mics...

Scratch that. the M-audio Microtrack SPDIF is out only...

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by d_fu

There - corrected it for you...
Ye aulde Beyer MCD 100, 101, etc. connect straight to AES/EBU. Very hard to find these days, though. I have three and I really like them...

I take my hat off to Beyer for doing the first digital mic..

But it was not actually that good (quite noisy as said by a reviewer friend of mine) and no longer available.

I don't think Beyer do a digital mic. at the moment.


Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by pro

Thanks John and Dider,

So the smallest recorder with SPDIF in I could find was the M-Audio Microtrack II. Would this with a Neumann KMD mic and the SPDIF adapter work well for mono? Any other small recorders out there with SPDIF in? I have not heard good things about the Microtrack.The sony units have optical...

I wish Neumann made a SPDIF optical adapter for the KDM mics...

Scratch that. the M-audio Microtrack SPDIF is out only...

I think you ~can~ get S-PDIF to optical converters.


Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

[antstudio]

future stuff:

Fibers that can hear and sing

MIT researchers pass a milestone on the path to sophisticated fibers that interact with their surroundings in new ways.

In the August issue of Nature Materials, Fink and his collaborators announce a new milestone on the path to functional fibers: fibers that can detect and produce sound. Applications could include clothes that are themselves sensitive microphones, for capturing speech or monitoring bodily functions, and tiny filaments that could measure blood flow in capillaries or pressure in the brain.

Fibers that can hear and sing

..ant

[panatrope]

Originally Posted by pro

Thanks John and Dider,

So the smallest recorder with SPDIF in I could find was the M-Audio Microtrack II. Would this with a Neumann KMD mic and the SPDIF adapter work well for mono? Any other small recorders out there with SPDIF in? I have not heard good things about the Microtrack.The sony units have optical...

I wish Neumann made a SPDIF optical adapter for the KDM mics...

Scratch that. the M-audio Microtrack SPDIF is out only...

The MicroTrack II is SPDIF in and I use it regularly as a bit-bucket for an on-the-spot mix from my RME FF400 via its SPDIF out. No issues so far (normally recording 24/44K1) though have been some rumours about the odd hiccup in 16 bit recording mode. Make sure they are talking about the latest firmware (V1.07). Four or five hours on one battery charge in this mode.

Not sure what format the Neumann puts out for mono (L ch only, L and R channels identical?) but for portable use check the Neumann SPDIF interface powering - the photo seems to show an accompanying wall-wart, but will it also accept battery? Also check that the digital stream is in consumer mode - I have not yet had the MTII reject a digital input, and the spec makes no mention of SCMS, but others (particularly SOny) may be more fussy.

Could be a fun outfit - pity the Neumann can't accommodate a stereo configuration ....

ps Ever thought about a USB mic and a netbook?

[pro]

thanks for the info about the MTII SPDIF in.

I am wondering about battery power for the neumann SPDIF Converter adapter too.

USB mics are too noisy and I want a SDC. I will be recording mainly very quiet acoustic instruments. So quality is a must.

Anybody have a link to music recorded with KMD mics?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by pro

thanks for the info about the MATII SPDIF in.

I am wondering about battery power for the neumann SPDIF Converter adapter too.

USB mics are too noisy and I want to SDC. I will be recording mainly very quiet acoustic instruments. So quality is a must.

Anybody have a link to music recorded with KMD mics?

There is a battery box option for the Neumann connection kit.

I have done four piano recital CDs using a pair of the KM 183-D.

Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

[pro]

Originally Posted by John Willett

I think you ~can~ get S-PDIF to optical converters.


Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

nah...

[pro]

Originally Posted by John Willett

There is a battery box option for the Neumann connection kit.

I have done four piano recital CDs using a pair of the KM 183-D.

Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

Do you have a link on the battery box option?

I for one, would love to hear a track. What did your mix and mastering process consist of? Anything to note?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by pro

I for one, would love to hear a track. What did your mix and mastering process consist of? Anything to note?

Mixing - no mixing at all.

It was a stereo pair of KM 183-D recorded onto a Fostex FR-2 (original version - sold when I bought the Nagra VI).

Edited on Sequoia.

Nothing was done at all - no compression, no reverb, no EQ, nothing - just the recording edited.

At the end the only change was to adjust the level so the highest peak was above -4dBFS Red Book Standard.

Four CDs, 3,000 of each pressed.

Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

[pro]

I'm without a doubt, gonna run through some transformers and tubes on the mix....

[pro]

Neumann should make an all in one recorder unit like the Sony PCMD1 but, using the Solution D technology and the KMD interchangeable capsules...

[Pedro_vde]

I have the impression that there are a lot of misunderstandings about digital microphones when I was reading this thread. There is a great white-paper about AES42 and the implementation of these standards.

It is down-loadable here

This document helped me to understand the technology behind digital microphones. Now I am really interested in there advantages and disadvantages in use.

Kind regards from Belgium

Pedro

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Pedro_vde

I have the impression that there are a lot of misunderstandings about digital microphones when I was reading this thread.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Pedro_vde

There is a great white-paper about AES42 and the implementation of these standards.

It is down-loadable here

This document helped me to understand the technology behind digital microphones. Now I am really interested in there advantages and disadvantages in use.

Thanks Pedro - looks very good.

I love digital mics and have been using them in anger since 2006.

[JEGG]

I am always a a little concerned when the discussion of "digital microphones" comes up.

There is a problem with the term "digital microphone," because it means so many very different things.

For example, in the Sennheiser line, a "digital microphone" is simply an analogue microphone with a A/D converter clipped on to the analogue output, similar to some early Beyers.

A Neumann "digital mic" is something quite different.

When is a Sennheiser mic (of any series) a digital mic? Does it depend on the length of the connector between the analogue output and the digital converter input? Where would such a call be made: inches, feet, 100 meters, or .....? Will the distance be arbitrary, or will there be some sort of measured performance change?

Maybe the marketing department will make the call, as they have with Sennheiser and earlier with Beyer.

Other manufacturers are doing their own variants.

It would be nice if there were some terms to differentiate these quite different approaches.

I am not against the approach of Sennheiser, as long as it does the job, and it seems to.

If it really does do the job, then why don't we just go to a universal standard of "in line" microphone converters supplying phantom power and located after the microphone analogue outputs, which can be changed and upgraded at will?

But if this approach seems not much like an idea of a "digital microphone," then the Sennheiser approach doesn't seem much like a "digital microphone" either.

Perhaps we need some terms to differentiate how "digital" a microphone is.

Then again, a very respected reviewer in SOS compared the digi 184 to a KM184->GML->reasonably specified recording device. Result? Same sound. Thoughts? Perhaps the digi 184 is similar to getting a "free" GML. (Before wholesale dissing SOS, please read the review.)

Is this a solution looking for a problem? What was the problem that prompted the solution of Solution D?

I mean this mostly-but not entirely, seriously-but some of these issues do merit more thought, and we need more than the generic term "digital microphone."

We could fall back to old codes-say the Neumann D is a DD microphone. That would make the Sennheiser an AD microphone.

Ideas?

[John Willett]

The digital microphone standard is laid out in AES42.

The Sennheiser is an RF condenser, so there is a bit more circuitry needed before it is digitised.

All other AES42 mics (Neumann & Schoeps) put the converter directly after the capsule and fet.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[Nityananda_SCSM]

I'm very interested in digital microphones, and I hope Mr. Willett and others on this board can help me with some of my confusion.

I'm specifically interested in using two MKH8040s with the stereo cable going to the MZD8000 module.

My main question is how can I record the mics if I don't have the Neumann DMI-2 ($1000) and a recorder that accepts AES/EBU.

I would want to record the mics using the Neuman SPDIF Connection Kit going to a SPDIF input since interfaces that include SPDIF are cheap.

However, how well will this work and what are the disadvantages compared to using the DMI-2 with AES/EBU?

For instance:
-How does one control the amount of gain? Do you still need to set levels?
-Is there an analog limiter that will prevent digital clipping? If so is it automatically active when using SPDIF and without changing settings using a DMI-2?
-Will the two tracks be in sync with each other and the rest of the analog tracks if I were using say a Edirol R44 or Tascam DR-680?


Thanks very much for your time.
-Chris

[John Willett]

Very quick - I'm just about to go to the airport for the International Recording Contest.

You need:-
1 x MKH 8040 stereoset
1 x Y-cable
1 x MZD 8000
1 x Neumann connection kit (AES or S-PDIF - or "Video" which is powered via a hirose - the "video" version is special order).
+ balanced XLR cable from MZD 8000 to connection kit.

Get Sennheiser to set the MZD 8000 to the sample rate you want - this can be changed by using the DMI-2 or the new DMI-2portable due at the end of this month.

Depending on what you record you may want to add a little gain in the MZD 8000, but this is not essential.

I can answer in detail later, but I have to get to the airport.