SoundDevices 788t

[supoUSA]

Would the 788t for location LIVE orchestral recording fit the bill for an outstanding recording? Meaning, are the preamps, converters up to par with the high-end outboard preamps/convertors or is this kind of "satisfactory" do it all box versus an outboard killer???

I'm dreaming of doing 8tracks of recording with all my gear in a book bag.

[thedommer]

Originally Posted by supoUSA

Would the 788t for location LIVE orchestral recording fit the bill for an outstanding recording? Meaning, are the preamps, converters up to par with the high-end outboard preamps/convertors or is this kind of "satisfactory" do it all box versus an outboard killer???

I'm dreaming of doing 8tracks of recording with all my gear in a book bag.

I use a 744t quite a bit and it is nothing short of fantastic. the 788t is damn expensive though. you might be better off getting a metric halo ULN-8 and hooking it up to a laptop.

But yes, you are right. having just the recorder is awesome. I did a recording fairly recently out in a small cabin that had no power in the woods. It was for a few simple youtube video. the 744t and 2 4050s made it happen. Its hard to tell sound quality on youtube but either way here they are:

YouTube - Dala - Stand in Awe

YouTube - Dala - Levi Blues


I dont think I did much messing around with it after. maybe a bit of compression and the slightest amount of eq. although I don't think so.

so in conclusion. the 744t is one of my favorite pieces or hardware ever. it makes me happy and is useful so often. very very transparent and awesome converters and pres.

[thedommer]

in conclusion to my conclusion. Didn't realize I hadn't quite answered your question. So yah, I would definitely use a 744t or 788t for orchestra recording.

[Denis Goekdag]

I've got a 702 and yes, the quality is definitely good. I haven't recorded Orchestra with it yet but I would without worries.

The suggestion of a Metric Halo ULN-8 with a laptop is a good one though....and with a 2 unit rackbag you're not exactly carrying around a lot either. You'd need a battery pack though as the ULN-8 isn't bus-powered.

[tsvisser]

Based on my experiences with the 744t, if you like clean preamps, the 788t should be outstanding. There is an ease and convenience that comes with using a dedicated location recorder that just makes the experience so much nicer over using a computer. ULN8 should be outstanding too, but the main difference is in the user experience, probably not the quality. (although to be fair, is one better than the other, probably, I'm not going to make blind conjecture on specific models I haven't used, but they are both hold good company and are both top notch) The ULN8 would also be an excellent post tool, the 788t is a purpose built recorder / playback machine only.

[John Willett]

The SD 788T is an excellent machine and, if you need 8-tracks, would be the way to go.

Personally, I went for the Nagra VI as it has the best mic. pres around and the best ADC/DACs around - I do classical recording.

But the N-VI is 6-tracks, not 8.

[tsvisser]

Yeah, as John mentioned, VI is excellent all around and I thought was better too. I also purchased a VI. The VI only has 4 built in mic pres, while the 788t has 8, and you can actually record 12 tracks simultaneously, if you want to record a mix too.

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

Yeah, as John mentioned, VI is excellent all around and I thought was better too. I also purchased a VI. The VI only has 4 built in mic pres, while the 788t has 8, and you can actually record 12 tracks simultaneously, if you want to record a mix too.

How is 12 tracks brought into the 788T?

Analog x8 + AES digital in?

I never realized how small this unit is. Think I will get one for some tests and measurements. Wonderful portablity with my eight MKH8000.


/Peter

[summer_room]

Hi Peter
The 788T has 8 inputs, and via its internal matrix it can record on 12 tracks. Isolated tracks + mixdowns.

Each of the eight 788T inputs can be routed to any of the twelve tracks in limitless combination.

788T Input and Track Relationship – v 1.60

:-) Jon

[mar-kus]

I'm using the 788t for one and a half years now.
Last november I recorded the symphony orchestra of prague.
They played with prof. Aleksandra Romanic.
The recording took place in a church. I recorded the 60 musicians with a schoeps cmit and a Schoeps ccm8 as ms main mic.
For the solo piano I used a Schoeps ccm5 and a mk2s.
Channel 1 & 2 for ms, channels 3 & 4 where unlinked isos for ccm5 & mk2s.
Channel 5 recorded the bass of the ccm5 in Setting "omni" with a low pass filter.
The settings on the 788t: 96 kHz and 24 bit.
The 788t's sound is really good.
It's definitely recommend for critical recordings.
I'd take the Nagra VI or the 788t for stuff like this.
Both machines are brilliant.
Regards
Markus

By the way - in the attachment your can hear the CMIT with CCM 8 as MS Set:
Distanz to piano: 4 m
Distanz to orchestra: 7,5 m
Location: church (about 30m x 80m) near munich - about 600 guests in the room

File comes with fade in and out
What you hear is only CMIT and CCM 8 without CCM 5 for the bass and MK2s for the piano.
A shift of 2 db at 10.000 Hz is implemented because of the distance - no other changes

[MichaelPatrick]

I use a 744T and 788T for "critical" recordings. I sometimes use outboard pres and converters, but won't hesitate to use what's built-in because it's not second-rate. SD internal routing is highly flexible and the design and components are all first class.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by Audiop

I never realized how small this unit is. ... Wonderful portablity ....

Small is not always beautiful.

[zoom]

@ mar-kus

...very interesting mic-setup to record a symphony orchestra

[Audiop]

Thanks for input guys!

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I use a 744T and 788T for "critical" recordings. I sometimes use outboard pres and converters, but won't hesitate to use what's built-in because it's not second-rate. SD internal routing is highly flexible and the design and components are all first class.

I assume the SD boxes are in the clean transparent camp? Have you done any controlled comparisons/test against other highly regarded stuff such as Millenia Media, MH ULN8, Orphues or similar?

I looked at the spec sheet (you know me..) and was impressed to see a 120dB/123dBA range of the AD input.

Since I've started filming as well I'd like a solution to use in the field. I have the Line Audio 8MP and Lynx Aurora 8 as my main rig and was thinking on using a ULN 8 with my 13" MBP but this 788T is making me salivating even more right now. :-)



/Peter

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Audiop

I assume the SD boxes are in the clean transparent camp? Have you done any controlled comparisons/test against other highly regarded stuff such as Millenia Media, MH ULN8, Orphues or similar?

Yes, they are in the clean/transparent category.

Next month David Bernhagen (Hornblower64) and I, with some of our colleagues, plan to record a live orchestra/choir performance to his Nagra VI and my SD 788T. It will be controlled; both recorders getting an isolated transformer split. We'll also capture the main mics directly through a Gordon 5 and Lynx Aurora. I can't promise but it is our hope to post clips afterward. If we can, those clips may be useful to you.

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

If we can, those clips may be useful to you.

No kidding!! :-)

Thanks, I hope you can share your findings.


/Peter

[5flagsaudio]

I posted some examples here a few months ago of a SD702 vs Millennia with RME conversion.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by 5flagsaudio

I posted some examples here a few months ago of a SD702 vs Millennia with RME conversion.

A link might help Peter and others interested.

[Hornblower64]

That's Hornblower64, if it matters.

[marvin100]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Yes, they are in the clean/transparent category.

Next month David Bernhagen (hornblower) and I, with some of our colleagues, plan to record a live orchestra/choir performance to his Nagra VI and my SD 788T. It will be a controlled; both recorders getting an isolated transformer split. We'll also capture the main mics directly through a Gordon 5 and Lynx Aurora. I can't promise but it is our hope to post clips afterward. If we can, those clips may be useful to you.

REALLY looking forward to this. I hope you can post the clips!

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Hornblower64

That's Hornblower64, if it matters.

Yes, David, it matters! Thanks for the correction.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

A link might help Peter and others interested.

Millennia/RME vs SD702

[Thomas W. Bethe]

We just did a recording of a steel drum band utilizing 5 of the 788t units for a total of 40 tracks.

The recording came off well and the 5 rented 788Ts performed flawlessly.

The only problem we had was that the 788t can get very hot and stacked they can get really really hot. We put wooden spacers in between each of the units and had a 8 inch fan blowing on them to keep them cool.

Everything went well and the internal microphone preamps sounded awesome.

I had never used the machines before but they were easy to setup and easy to use.

We were doing the recording for a DVD and a PBS show so we had to have external time-code and sync fed to every machine. We did the recording in two 16 hour days and the Sound Devices never missed a beat.

They have my

[panatrope]

Originally Posted by supoUSA

I'm dreaming of doing 8tracks of recording with all my gear in a book bag.

Does that include the mics, mic stands, cables, etc?

[summer_room]

Originally Posted by panatrope

Does that include the mics, mic stands, cables, etc?

mics flown with thin wire from the celing with wireless transmitters is an option...

[mar-kus]

@zoom
thank you.

Not everybody likes this way of recording.
But the cmit works really nice with the ccm8.
I'm a MS & DMS fan. If the right recording spot once is discovered
a complete orchestra can be covered with one MS setup.
As the cmit has no real offline to the side signals
it is a good choice for Music recording.

Regards

Markus

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by panatrope

Does that include the mics, mic stands, cables, etc?

A challenge it is.. eight ultra portable channels of top notch quality.. but not impossible me thinks!

Eight small mic's like MKH8000 + 788T can basically be carried in the pockets of a big jacket.

Eight cables and a bunch of lightweight boom poles used creatively as mic stands can be carried in a small bag or back-pack.

Add to that one or two of the latest DSLR with HD-video capability and you can have a one man ultra portable surround audio/video rig with enormous potential. Heck you may even be able to fit a 0.5 meter Glidetrack to that.

Progress in digital and semiconductors has brought gear to the market that allow for things not even close to possible 10-20 years ago.


/Peter

[Petrus]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Add to that one or two of the latest DSLR with HD-video capability and you can have a one man ultra portable surround audio/video rig with enormous potential. Heck you may even be able to fit a 0.5 meter Glidetrack to that.
/Peter

Badly off-topic, but those cameras have a serious limitations what comes to easy concert shooting: short continuous take times, from five minutes (Nikon) to 29:59 (Canon). Reasons are not technical, but political; those cameras must not be considered real video cameras for tax & duty and professional video restriction reasons (concerts, olympics etc where stills shooters must not be able to shoot video).

[Audiop]

Yes, I know Petrus. It's going to be interesting however to see what the next few generations DSLR's will have in terms of video functions and cool stuff can be done even though there are some shortcomings for video.

I'm looking at various products now such as Sony PMW EX1R/EX3, Canon 5Dmk2, Nikon D3s, Panasonic AF100 and so on.

To bad that none of these otherwise interesting products shot 50/60fps in full HD 1920x1080. That's kind of strange since there are budget cameras that do this.


/Peter

[mosrite]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Yes, I know Petrus. It's going to be interesting however to see what the next few generations DSLR's will have in terms of video functions and cool stuff can be done even though there are some shortcomings for video.

I'm looking at various products now such as Sony PMW EX1R/EX3, Canon 5Dmk2, Nikon D3s, Panasonic AF100 and so on.

To bad that none of these otherwise interesting products shot 50/60fps in full HD 1920x1080. That's kind of strange since there are budget cameras that do this.


/Peter

I just don't get it. Yes you can get great footage with the Canon 5dmk2 but it is not THAT cheap (especially once you've costed a good lens), has the 12 minute recording limitation, doesn't have a proper viewfinder, suffers more from rolling shutter than dedicated pro cams etc etc. It's size is great though. Good as a secondary camera on a shoot I would suggest.

Also, what you are proposing means a one camera shoot right? for a concert? that would make damn boring viewing I reckon.

We are now seriously off topic but linking back to the SD788t; small size does have its limitations sonically. Don't get me wrong it is a clean transparent sound, but in answer to your first question, no I don't believe it holds up against a dedicated bunch of excellent external pres/adc's. I can only go on the SD744t that I have used so apologies if the SD788 is of different pre/ADC technology.

I think all of us here have dreamed of the portability thing (I know I have) but the reality is that if it is a recording that you are getting paid for or a recording that is very important to you or the people involved then I know I would personally prefer to lug the heavy (but better sounding) rack gear and get the best possible sound.

Also, what of mic stands? XLR cables? headphones (for clients too)? an 8-trk recording can never be super portable.

There are always compromises and it totally depends what line of work you are in.