Schoeps Capsule Options

[seanmccoy]

I've sold my Earthworks TC40k's (very nice but ridiculously noisy) and am leaning heavily toward a pair of Schoeps. While ultimately I'd love to have at least two pair of capsules, I think it's likely the Mk4 or Mk41 would be the most useful for me overall and would be the wisest purchase for starters. Do those of you who have access to multiple capsules feel the directional models are still natural enough for classical and ethnic recordings, or do you find yourselves frequently opting for the omnis? And I've seen a mention or two of a preference for the Mk41 over the Mk4 when opting for cardioid. Any thoughts on that?

[Recording David]

MK5 does omni and cardioid and they sound fantastic. That would be my recommendation for a first pair and they will cover many bases.

[NathanEldred]

I think the pattern of the Mk4 sounds very natural and more natural than the Mk41. I'm not sure where the trend of the Mk41 popularity (at least on some forums) came from. Not that they sound bad at all as all Schoeps are very neutral, its just that they are very tight in pattern, so they are very "dry"...and maybe that is a benefit to you depending on your production techniques.

I really like the Mk22, which is the sub cardioid (some call it open cardioid), which is an in between place between cardioid and omni. So again it just depends on how much room and 'open' sound you want. The way I personally do things I would choose a pair of mk22 and a pair of mk4. Or maybe one mk22 & one mk8 (figure of 8 cap) so I can do mid side with that pair, and then a pair of mk4's.

Mk2 - lots of room, no proximity
m22- some directionality but still picks up quite a bit of room
mk4 - directional with a bit of proximity effect, more natural than Mk41
mk 41 - very directional/very little room. Similar to a shotgun mic in pattern.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by Recording David

MK5 does omni and cardioid and they sound fantastic. That would be my recommendation for a first pair and they will cover many bases.

I had looked at that, and it would certainly be a cost effective way to get two patterns. IIRC, however, the combo-capsule has a slightly higher noise spec than the dedicated capsules. I'm probably overly nit-picking this, but I'm a little noise-sensitive after using the Earthworks for so long.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I think the pattern of the Mk4 sounds very natural and more natural than the Mk41. I'm not sure where the trend of the Mk41 popularity (at least on some forums) came from. Not that they sound bad at all as all Schoeps are very neutral, its just that they are very tight in pattern, so they are very "dry"...and maybe that is a benefit to you depending on your production techniques.

I really like the Mk22, which is the sub cardioid (some call it open cardioid), which is an in between place between cardioid and omni. So again it just depends on how much room and 'open' sound you want. The way I personally do things I would choose a pair of mk22 and a pair of mk4. Or maybe one mk22 & one mk8 (figure of 8 cap) so I can do mid side with that pair, and then a pair of mk4's.

Mk2 - lots of room, no proximity
m22- some directionality but still picks up quite a bit of room
mk4 - directional with a bit of proximity effect, more natural than Mk41
mk 41 - very directional/very little room. Similar to a shotgun mic in pattern.

Great, Nathan, thanks for the details. Of course, any of these should sound great with the Buzz MA2.2 I'm going to order any day now....

[Corran]

I was in the same boat recently and decided to go with a pair of MK4. I have used them all over the place and they are just fantastic. Now, I'm saving up to get a pair of MK2S caps but the MK4 are definitely "workhorses." Personally I'd go for "standard" patterns before any of the esoteric stuff like the 41, 21, 22, etc.

The MK5/6 would be nice but you are doubling (or more) your cost then. Also, I'm leery of capsules with mechanical rather than electrical switching due to maintenance concerns. Also supposedly some Schoeps engineers themselves say the 5/6 capsules are compromises in some way and do not sound as good as individual capsules. PLUS if you ever get another set of bodies you can't exactly split your MK5's to be a cardioid pair and an omni pair!

[Recording David]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

I had looked at that, and it would certainly be a cost effective way to get two patterns. IIRC, however, the combo-capsule has a slightly higher noise spec than the dedicated capsules. I'm probably overly nit-picking this, but I'm a little noise-sensitive after using the Earthworks for so long.

That's fair enough. While the MK5 caps do have a higher noise spec I'd be surprised if you could hear it in the real world! I've use the MK5s to do recordings that require the absolute lowest levels of noise (solo classical guitar, solo flute etc.) with extremely happy clients. If the noise spec is all that's putting you off, I would try a pair before you discount them for that reason alone.

IME the MK4 is 'harder' sounding than the cardioid setting on the MK5. As has already been mentioned you might also look at the MK21, which also sound great. As always, the best test will be for you to listen for yourself and decide which will be right for your own recording situations.

In case you do consider the MK5 caps, there are no worries about maintenance concerns. The pair that I have, have been used every day for 8 years with no problems. I'm not trying the hard sell on the 5s (no reason for me to!), but I'm just giving you the news from an actual user.

[Baithak]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

I've sold my Earthworks TC40k's (very nice but ridiculously noisy) and am leaning heavily toward a pair of Schoeps. While ultimately I'd love to have at least two pair of capsules, I think it's likely the Mk4 or Mk41 would be the most useful for me overall and would be the wisest purchase for starters. Do those of you who have access to multiple capsules feel the directional models are still natural enough for classical and ethnic recordings, or do you find yourselves frequently opting for the omnis? And I've seen a mention or two of a preference for the Mk41 over the Mk4 when opting for cardioid. Any thoughts on that?

In addition to what others have said, the popularity of the 41 is mainly from it use in the area of dialogue work for film; the capsule has a natural base freq drop off plus narrower pickup which makes it ideal for dialogue; for years Schoeps did not make a shotgun for this very reason. For music use, I have found the MK41 has better off-axis response than the MK4 and therefore if used as a spot in mult-miced scenarios, it can be mixed together without too much trouble.

The MK41 singly, in MS or as an ORTF pair used on acoustic instruments that don't have too much lo-frequency and/or in boomy rooms gives the cleanest, most gorgeous of recordings. As for a cardioid pair, I have always preferred the DPA 4011 to the MK4 Schoeps so when I need to use XY I use the DPAs.

Hope this helps,
Baithak

[seanmccoy]

As I understand it, the Schoeps mics are known to have a hint of their own sheen as compared with the "all-natural" DPA's, correct?

And with that in mind, as a little side tangent, the other mics I was/am considering are the Gefell 295 or 296. I've spoken with Adam at length about these and they sound very attractive, but does anybody have any direct experience with these as compared with the corresponding Schoeps options?

[waxx]

i never could put them side by side but the Gefell is a bit different but for me as good as the CMC-5 with MK4 cap i've used. It's a bit more coloured but in such a subtile way it didn't disturb the sound of the piece (classical violin and piano) when i used them for this purpose. I like them also for a lot of other stuff (drum overhead, acoustic guitar, folk instuments (i've used them on draailier (a flemish kind of mechanical violin), flute, dictatonic accordeon, ...) and even as vocal mic (why don't do more ppl use sdc's as vocal mic, it works well).

Both Gefells are among my favorite sdc's of all time, toghetter with the KM84 and the schoeps CMC and dpa 40xx stuff.

[Jonathan Starr]

I sure love the Mk21's for all around work. My Mk4's hardly get used.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

As I understand it, the Schoeps mics are known to have a hint of their own sheen as compared with the "all-natural" DPA's, correct?

And with that in mind, as a little side tangent, the other mics I was/am considering are the Gefell 295 or 296. I've spoken with Adam at length about these and they sound very attractive, but does anybody have any direct experience with these as compared with the corresponding Schoeps options?

The Gefells sound excellent, but they are significantly brighter (in general) to my ears than any Schoeps, especially the Mk4's and Mk22's.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

The Gefells sound excellent, but they are significantly brighter (in general) to my ears than any Schoeps, especially the Mk4's and Mk22's.

I have and use pairs of Gefell M294, M295 and Schoeps CMC6/MK41 (and used MK4 capsules for several years).

I wouldn't say the M295 is brighter than the Schoeps MK4 or MK41 (the M294 certainly is - intentionally). I find that the major difference between them is in the lower mids and high bass frequencies (i.e., 100 Hz to 350 Hz +-). The Gefells are more detailed and accurate there. This results in less "mass" in that frequency area. No doubt, part of that is due to the gentle rolloff of the M295 through those frequencies. Nonetheless, the M294 exhibits the same character, unless it is very close to the source. This may give the impression that the highs are more pronounced, and in a way they indirectly are.

[Plush]

MK 4 is the capsule to get for universal work. Natural cardioid pattern with neutral sound. MK 41 is a hyper cardioid and is a specialized capsule with a narrow pick-up pattern. It is not for universal use--instead, it is used to minimize pick-up of room or surrounding instruments.

MK 5 is fantastic and very versatile. You WILL be wanting some Schoeps omni sound in your quiver at some point because the sound is so good. Besides the MK5, for separate capsules I recommend MK2 or 2H.

There is no noise with a Schoeps microphone no matter which capsule you are using.

[Teddy Ray]

I wouldnt call the gefell so much brighter as I would call the Schoeps "darker".

[Jonathan Starr]

Had a Gefell M200, and it was much darker than the Mk4. Never knew if it was a bad unit, traded it to a friend who liked it.

The MK2 omnis are wonderful. The lows on them are truly grande.

[pianokeys]

If anyone wants to hear some Gefell M200s in action check out this sample where almost all the strings (banjo and dobro and acoustic) are recorded with a pair or single M200s - the acoustic guitar also has a 930 and an M149. Bass with M200 and 149. Varied pres but high usage of the incredible Forssell SMP-2.

Index of /demo

[Nobilmente]

Originally Posted by Corran

I was in the same boat recently and decided to go with a pair of MK4. I have used them all over the place and they are just fantastic. Now, I'm saving up to get a pair of MK2S caps but the MK4 are definitely "workhorses." Personally I'd go for "standard" patterns before any of the esoteric stuff like the 41, 21, 22, etc.

The MK5/6 would be nice but you are doubling (or more) your cost then. Also, I'm leery of capsules with mechanical rather than electrical switching due to maintenance concerns. Also supposedly some Schoeps engineers themselves say the 5/6 capsules are compromises in some way and do not sound as good as individual capsules. PLUS if you ever get another set of bodies you can't exactly split your MK5's to be a cardioid pair and an omni pair!

I think the Mk5 capsule is the only cardiod with the slight rise high frequency isn't it? It's also got one of the tightest pattern in the cardiod, both of which are very handy when used for a main pair.

I must say that I have not had even a whisper of a problem with the mechanical side (or any other way) of my Mk5 capsule over the past 20 years (I guess) they are all like new still.

[Corran]

I think the MK4V has a slight rise in HF response.

I guess there are proponents of both single-pattern and multi-pattern caps, but for me the real deciding factor was that I plan on getting another pair of bodies, so I want to have separate omni and cardioid capsules.

[Anthony777]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I think the pattern of the Mk4 sounds very natural and more natural than the Mk41. I'm not sure where the trend of the Mk41 popularity (at least on some forums) came from. Not that they sound bad at all as all Schoeps are very neutral, its just that they are very tight in pattern, so they are very "dry"...and maybe that is a benefit to you depending on your production techniques.

.

I've been using a Schoeps pair with MK41 caps for some time. They are wonderful sounding, but the pattern is a bit tight in a stereo setup for my tastes. Not quite as open as I'd like, though still great sounding. They work better on close miked solo intstruments IMO. Very focused sounding there.

Since I do mostly stereo stuff, I'd get the MK4 if I re-purchased. You have to work a bit harder to find the right configuration. In ORTF I usually go DIN (90 degrees) and till have to check the sound of the spread.

That said, the Midrange on the Schoeps is the best I've heard. Very rich and smooth. (Even too much so for some ears though)

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

experience with these as compared with the corresponding Schoeps options?

Yes. I have used all of the schoeps capsules, and of course own the 296 (and have used the 295 a whole lot)

.. the Schoeps are a bit colored dare I say "dark" especially in the lower-mids, whereas the gefells are more open and have a better low extension.

the schoeps are beautiful too...just, in my opinion, not as versatile as the Gefells.

Open-ness / clarity is a big gefell trait.