Large Ensemble Mics & Techniques

[completeidiot23]

Hey guys

I got asked to record a large ensemble, in a new studio. The guy told me that it will mostly be orchestra type instruments (woodwinds, strings, some brass).

The guy told me that all up there will be 17 performers, and that they preferred to play live.

I'm a bit nervous as I've never recorded a large ensemble and because of the mic setup that the studio has.

The mics are:
2X SM57
2X SM58
Beta 52
Rode NT2A
Rode NT1A
6X AKG C3000B

I haven't used any of those mics but the 57 & 58.

I would like to know what mics are suited for each section, to record live. And what techniques I could use to capture the best performance with the little choice of mics I have.


Thanks.

[Corran]

Ouch, that mic selection is rather weak for this kind of thing. Us guys who frequent the Remote subforum talk about classical more so maybe this should be in there? Even though it's in a studio.

I think essential questions are, what genre of music is this for? Will all instruments play together, or separately? And what kind of room are you working with?

Personally, assuming everyone was playing together in a good room, I'd start with 2 of the C3000B's in an ORTF arrangement. I own two myself and have had luck with them in a classical music setting but they are not very popular mics around here. Why does that studio have 6?!

The dynamics will be pretty useless unless you are close-miking stuff, or maybe the 52 on a tuba to get more low-end but in general you are going to have to experiment to get what sound is needed.

[completeidiot23]

Thanks for the advice.


I don't know why they would choose 6 of them and not pair anything else except for the 57 & 58's. Apparently all the equipment was choosen by somebody who knew what they were doing. They bought a Tascam Dm-3200, but only have the said mics.

I was thinking I'll start with the stereo room paired mics (since the C3000 are only paired ones they have).

Then work off there. I would prop need to close mic the bass instruments.


Oh yeah their all playing live.

thanks

[Greg Curtis]

I would use 2 of the 3000s in ORTF, 2 as wide outriggers, and the remaining 2 as spots. Use the Rodes as spots on instrument groups, also.

How big is the room?

Good luck. That mic selection is weak.

[sound_music]

ouch, i'd look into renting some microphones for the occasion. you're gonna be pretty limited with what they have in house...

[_Morph_]

Originally Posted by completeidiot23

I'm a bit nervous as I've never recorded a large ensemble and because of the mic setup that the studio has.

The mics are:
2X SM57
2X SM58
Beta 52
Rode NT2A
Rode NT1A
6X AKG C3000B

I haven't used any of those mics but the 57 & 58.

In all honesty, I'd leave this to a better outfitted studio and to someone more experienced. However, if you're feeling like putting yourself to the trouble, here's what I would try first:

Rode NT-2A and Rode NT-1A as an MS pair (main pair, above the conductor);
The AKG C3000s as spot mics (they have more self noise, so work better closer to the source - not that bad on violins!).
Everything else is not even close to what you'd need.

[seedee701]

if it has to sound anything like an orchestra and you don't rent some mikes and investigate about orchestra-recording..... you 're dead.

maybe you should start by getting an idea what music is being recorded and what they expect from the recordings. based upon that you'll have to spend a few nights reading the 'remote possiblities' forum here. thats where all the serious orchestra-guys hang out on gearslutz. there you will find anything you need, except experience.

just another thought (or concern) that comes to mind:
it's rather unlikely, that a studio with such a mic selection would (just by accident) have a room that sounds appropriate for orchestra recording. in orchestra-recording 50% of the success is determined by the room, which probably is why the serious orchestra-engineers hang out in the 'remote possibilies'-forum

[Greg Curtis]

If the room resembles the mic collection, it's going to be a small, low ceilings, and dead.

Be careful.

[suedesound]

I've only done a few orchestral recordings, but I would say you're not gonna get anything that great with what you have to work with. Someone else probably already mentioned this but I'm guessing the room isn't any good based off the mic selection and that's a big part of this kind of recording (well any recording really). I would say rent some better mics, but that may not help you if the room sucks. I guess the C3000's as a stereo pair and spot mics as needed. The dynamics aren't going to do anything for you in this session. Who the hell owns 6 of those?

[imixrecords]

Sounds like a soup sandwich to me!

That mic selection is pretty crippling!

I have to wonder about the room. I would take the time to see the room beforehand if possible and at least determine if it is sufficient to meet the acoustic goals of the project. And if it is, then see about renting some mics.

I've done a small handfull of string sessions for R&b / Pop records and here is what i used:

Violins (usually 8-10 players) - 3 U87 placed about 4- ft above section
Viola (2-4 players) - M149 placed 2-3 ft above section
Cello (1-2 players) -47 FET or KM84
Woodwinds - U87
Perc -Coles Ribbons
Wide Room - Earthworks pair
Narrow room -U67 pair

[completeidiot23]

just an update.

I ran the project director. And suggest we hire some more mics, in order to get a better sound. He went to explain that they only set aside so much money for the music (what a suprise), and that he will get back to me with further dates, etc..

I think that he has hired somebody who charge less and do a really dodgy recording. But I suppose it his loss.

I will see how this pans out.

[joelpatterson]

This is one of these threads...

[completeidiot23]

what do you mean "one of these threads"

I was hired to do a recording, i was preparing myself, by getting advice. And now the job may be called off. Sorry for wasting some of the internet.

[chris319]

I think that he has hired somebody who charge less and do a really dodgy recording.

I think you should arrange to "drop by" on the day of the recording just to see if Mr. Dodgy Recording Guy is using the two SM57s as a stereo pair.

[Jim vanBergen]

I don't think anyone is out to make you feel bad or to say anything bad about you.

"This is one of those threads" to me, is accurate. You start off with a very difficult situation: record orchestra in a studio you don't know, with very poor selection of mics.

When you prepare yourself and talk to someone in charge, they find someone else for less $$.

They will have very poor results. You will waste more of your time talking to people. Eventually, someone in this industry will realize that with classical recording, you get what you pay for. Sometimes you can get quality for cheap, but its rare and is usually because someone with a LOT of expensive gear is willing to do a favor.

We have all been here before. Most of us feel bad reading this over again; we have all had to deal with sad situations like this. It's like watching your best friend's daughter have her heart broken by a snotty, 14-year old soccer player. You can't do anything, can't really say anything, can't beat up the 14 year old soccer player. The kids don't know better, they all have to learn- it's life.

I wish you the best success and no bad intentions whatsoever.

JvB

[completeidiot23]

Cheers, yeah I will check in on the recording.


well thanks guys.

[Greg Curtis]

I think that it is for the best that you are not doing this gig. Sounds like a complete mess.