Objections to Mic Stands from Directors, Conductors, Managers, or Producers

[Ozpeter]

I too get asked for audio feeds and they usually wait until five minutes before the concert starts.

I always have with me a 3.5mm output lead due to the number of occasions that musicians have handed me their minidisc recorder moments before the concert and asked if I could run a copy onto it during the recording. If it's them who are paying for the recording, I'm not fussed. Anyone else, sorry, I haven't got the right lead, honest.

[Corran]

So what happened Norse? Let's hear an update!

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by chris319

In the realm of youth orchestras, do you suppose it's possible that parents who are benefactors feel they have the right to come into a concert and have their way in terms of making recordings and ordering people around and placing their gear wherever they want because their monetary contributions give them a sense of entitlement? In other words, because they've donated money they feel they own the place?

My retort to the guy who insisted on a special mic for his son would have been, "Sir, I don't know what your occupation is, but I don't presume to tell you how to do your job and I'll thank you not to tell me how to do mine."

See, those infinity dB attenuators have their place and they're so easy to make, too. Just solder a 150-ohm resistor across XLR pins 2 and 3.

Speaking of donations, this past weekend the orchestra I work with gave an outdoor concert. Afterwards, a total stranger came up to the conductor and handed her a check for $1,000 (let's hope it clears).

I don't think most people even think about what it is they are requesting. They see the world through blinders and what they need or don't need at that particular moment it all they care about. Parents of "child prodigies or musical geniuses" are so use to getting things done their way that for them it is unthinkable that anyone would not do what they wanted done immediately.

Some of the crazy things that parents wanted me to do to spotlight their child would fill a book.

And it is not just parents. I had a conductor walk over to me and ask me to get him some water minutes before a concert started. I told him that I was alone and could not really leave my equipment. He was NOT happy. I found one of the board of trustee members and he went and got the conductor a bottle of water. I have also had people do things without asking. In one concert a fellow arrived late. He sat in the first row but he did not like the microphone stand in his line of sight and got up and moved it about 6 feet to the right. I got up and moved it back. He came up to me and said it was blocking his line of sight and wanted it moved or he would cause a fuss. I told him to cause a fuss if he wanted but the microphone stand stayed where it was placed. It was a free concert, he had not paid for a ticket, he was very late in arriving and his "line of sight" was not as important as getting a good recording of the concert. To the best of my knowledge he never did or said anything to anyone.

In one concert we had to set up our microphones in the main aisle of the church. We put yellow tape around the stand and used some sand bags to keep it from moving. A person in a wheel chair wanted to sit in the front row. I saw him coming down the aisle but before I could get to it the person he was with moved the microphone stand out of the aisle and put the sand bags on a pew seat. I got there and replaced the microphone and the sand bags. About three minutes later the person in the wheel chair decided he needed to go to the bathroom and when I saw him start coming up the aisle I went and moved the microphone myself. 10 minutes later he came back. I replaced the microphone and sand bags and then I saw him coming up the aisle again. So I met him at the microphone, apologized for the microphone being in the aisle and asked where he was going. He said he wanted to be back in the back of the church not at the front. I again moved the microphone stand. Gratefully he did not have to come down the center aisle again. There were two side aisles that were wide and open that he could have used. Why he kept needing the center aisle is beyond my comprehension.

One concert a parent came up to me and asked what I was using to record the concert. I told them. They asked if I had better microphones than I was using and I said yes. They left and a couple of minutes later the business manager came over to tell me that the parent came over to her and was upset that I was not using the best microphones I had for recording the concert and was going to come to the board of trustee's meeting and get to the bottom of this. I have been recording this group for 40 years and never had a problem with my microphone choices. The way the parent asked the question was "do you have better microphones" to which I replied "yes" but she never asked me the other part of the question and that would be "why are you using these microphones" to which I would have replied because they are the best match for the orchestra and the hall. Nothing ever came of this Q & A session but it was somewhat unnerving.

People are fun...sometimes!!!!

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Here is a thread I started some time back that has a lot of great info:
Opera Recording Techniques

Thanks for the link, Ben. Definitely read it over some time ago, as well as the thread regarding IU's opera broadcasts. That's one of the reasons I considered leaving the main pair on the floor on center stage. Changes could have been more readily accomodated if I'd been given some heads up. I set up hours before the concert and only got a call a half-hour before the house opens?! stike

I haven't had a chance to listen to the recording yet. I'll return to Williamsburg today to get the audio/footage from my video guy. Keep your fingers crossed! I'm optimistic it'll be OK. For a while I thought I was going to have to do without a main pair and just rely on two flankers (which were just for anybody singing far L or R).

[chris319]

"do you have better microphones" to which I replied "yes"

Your answer is much more honest than my "What's it to you, bitch?" answer.

Here in Hollywood I've worked at all three major networks where they do shows before live audiences. If someone from the audience did any of the things you described, they'd be out on the street before you can say "large-diaphragm condenser".

[rumleymusic]

I had a conductor walk over to me and ask me to get him some water minutes before a concert started. I told him that I was alone and could not really leave my equipment.

Conductors have a very narrow focus and odd midset it seems.

There is one I work with on a regular basis who always sets his water cup, scores, and baton on my equipment table, sometimes right on my converter. Drives me crazy. I mention it to him but every concert I have the same problem. This guy will pull a water bottle out of a fridge, take a sip, screw on the cap, and set it down. Later, he will come back, get a new water bottle out of the fridge, open it, take a sip, and set it down. This continues until there are 6 or 7 barely touched open bottles. I asked him about it once, and he said he wanted new water because it was cold. (like he couldn't have put the other bottle back in the fridge!)

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

And it is not just parents.

Quite true... In one concert where I was only supposed to record, I ended up helping out with a wireless mic for a speaker, because there wasn't really anyone else to help (warden had no idea of the system). Then one mic failed and while we (me and one of the organizer's helpers) were exchanging the mic, an elderly gentle(?)man from the audience walked up to us, complained about how the speaker couldn't be heard and this and that, and at some point decided that the separate mic I had put there to record the speaker wasn't really needed and was about to grab and remove it... Chased him away with a couple of straighforward opinions...

At another show, I needed to cross part of an aisle with two mic cables and put a rubber floor mat on top of them for some protection and to avoid tripping. After some time, I noticed that the concert master and the violin player next to him had decided to just grab the mat to keep their feet warm. When I reclaimed it, he complained bitterly, and (falsely) claimed that noone would step on the cables there anyhow. Should have had a little talk about private property with him... I'm sure he was totally convinced that I had offended him seriously...
fuuck

I have been kicked off the stage twice by the same conductor very shortly before the concert because he didn't like my setup... Nothing much doing, although it was rather silly...

[chris319]

I noticed that the concert master and the violin player next to him had decided to just grab the mat to keep their feet warm. When I reclaimed it, he complained bitterly, and (falsely) claimed that no one would step on the cables there anyhow.

Can you say "broken hip"? Can you say "liability"? Can you say "lawsuit"?

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Conductors have a very narrow focus and odd midset it seems.

There is one I work with on a regular basis who always sets his water cup, scores, and baton on my equipment table, sometimes right on my converter. Drives me crazy. I mention it to him but every concert I have the same problem. This guy will pull a water bottle out of a fridge, take a sip, screw on the cap, and set it down. Later, he will come back, get a new water bottle out of the fridge, open it, take a sip, and set it down. This continues until there are 6 or 7 barely touched open bottles. I asked him about it once, and he said he wanted new water because it was cold. (like he couldn't have put the other bottle back in the fridge!)

I have a couple of interns like that except that the water is already at room temperature. They lose track of where they set their water bottles down and just get another one " cause it's easier"

[tenor39]

In the hall I used to record in there was always one union guy that would come in only on the larger gigs. Every time he was there he seemed to make a point of trying to damage my gear - either from ignorance or malice. The worst occasion was after a concert that featured Beethoven's 9th with large chorus. I had hung 4 DPA 4021's from one of the electrics and during the strike, as the fly bridge guy was lowering the electric, this dufus yells for the guy to "lower it faster". As I watched all 4 mic's slam into the stage floor, I yell at this idiot and tell him to stop. He looks at me with rolled eyes and then proceeds to kick the mic nearest to him, saying, "What's this thing in my way?" The house A1 saw what was happening and got in between us, because I was ready to drop this ass right then and there.

This all took place because I was not allowed to use any booms or stands anywhere on the stage, even thought the choir was so far back that you could barely see them.

[chris319]

I had hung 4 DPA 4021's from one of the electrics and during the strike, as the fly bridge guy was lowering the electric, this dufus yells for the guy to "lower it faster".

Force = mass * acceleration. By ordering the guy to accelerate the lowering process, the more force there would be when your mics hit the deck and the more damage done to your mics. The guy knew what he was doing.

[rumleymusic]

As I watched all 4 mic's slam into the stage floor, I yell at this idiot and tell him to stop. He looks at me with rolled eyes and then proceeds to kick the mic nearest to him, saying, "What's this thing in my way?"

Just hearing that makes me mad, I cant imagine how much you must have wanted to scrape this bastard's face off your boot...wow.

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

I cant imagine how much you must have wanted to scrape this bastard's face off your boot.

This is where I was thinking about force=mass*acceleration.

[Remoteness]

I got to say...

This sounds like a chronic problem if this guy happens to damage your gear each and every time he's around...

His actions were completely unacceptable.
I trust you did something about this after the fact.
Perhaps a letter to the venue, lead union rep and such.

In any event, were your mics damaged in anyway?

Simply unbelievable; I'm now seriously pissed off about this crap!

Originally Posted by tenor39

In the hall I used to record in there was always one union guy that would come in only on the larger gigs. Every time he was there he seemed to make a point of trying to damage my gear - either from ignorance or malice. The worst occasion was after a concert that featured Beethoven's 9th with large chorus. I had hung 4 DPA 4021's from one of the electrics and during the strike, as the fly bridge guy was lowering the electric, this dufus yells for the guy to "lower it faster". As I watched all 4 mic's slam into the stage floor, I yell at this idiot and tell him to stop. He looks at me with rolled eyes and then proceeds to kick the mic nearest to him, saying, "What's this thing in my way?" The house A1 saw what was happening and got in between us, because I was ready to drop this ass right then and there.

This all took place because I was not allowed to use any booms or stands anywhere on the stage, even thought the choir was so far back that you could barely see them.

[chris319]

proceeds to kick the mic nearest to him, saying, "What's this thing in my way?"

Do you know the guy's name? I'd say this is a case of "either he goes or I go".

[Thomas W. Bethe]

In union houses sometimes you can get more respect with respect than with writing nasty letters. I did the Cleveland Opera from its inception to very recently. I always had a union "audio engineer" helping me. Sometimes they were great sometimes not so great. I made sure I was very clear in my instructions to them and told them to ask for questions or to ask for clarification if they did not understand what it was that I was asking them to do.

A couple of problems will illustrate my frustrations with the crew member I was assigned.

For a short time we were using microphones that had their own internal batteries. The microphones had to have the batteries installed and be turned on before they would work. I told the union "audio engineer" about this and of course he forgot and we did not have any feed from them. I called down to the stage to remind him and he went over and turned them all on but still nothing. I finally went down on stage and had him check the batteries which it turns out he forgot to install.

I was doing the recording of an opera and at the same time doing an ISDN feed to the local radio station. Five minutes before the opera ended a stage hand who was trying to beat the rush went out a back door and tore out our ISDN lines so the end of the opera and the feature afterward was lost to the radio audience but we got the show on tape so the rebroadcast went well.

We were using some side mounted shotgun microphones for deep set pickup. The union person was in charge of mounting them and running the cables to them. I told him where I wanted the shotguns aimed but when I came down to check on them the were pointed strait into the air. When he put the cables on them he did not do a "service loop" but simply put the cables on them and let them hang so the cables pulled on the microphones and they both went strait up. I showed him the problem and he corrected it. We were using specially constructed microphone clamps that were made out of some aluminum light hangers and got clamped to the 1.5" light pipes on the inside of the proscenium arch. They had square nuts on the bolt that held them to the light pipe. I gave the union guy a crescent wrench and told him to make sure they were tight. Of course he forgot and about half way though the first act they started sliding down the pipes and finally got to the end of the pipe were they sat for the rest of the act. When I came down at intermission I asked him to tighten up the bolts and put the microphones back where they belonged and he told me that he had "lost" the crescent wrench I gave him when he went to the bathroom and did not have anything to tighten up the nuts. I went over the the union steward and told him about what was happening and he gave his guy a wrench and as I was walking out of the theater at closing time he handed me my wrench and said he was sorry.

I was doing another opera and we had run the microphones from the floor microphones to the outlets under the stage lip. Everything checked out well. Then one by one the microphones stopped working. I went down into the orchestra pit and found the problem. The union guy had not plugged in the XLRs all the way. He also took the loop of wire for the microphones and just hung it in free space After a couple of hours the loop pulled out the XLR cables and presto no microphones. Since I was not allowed to touch anything I had to have the union guy plug back in the microphones and he again did not plug them in all the way. I told him to push a bit harder and when the XLR clicked he was "AMAZED".

I cannot imaging what you felt when your microphones hit the floor. I am sorry it happened to you and it sounds like this guy has it out for you. Doing work in a union hall sometime defies all logic of what is right and proper. Best of luck next time.

[rumleymusic]

Usually in smaller venues that do not employ a union crew, I will opt not to use my own mics, especially if they are hung. In one mid sized city run concert hall (attached to a high school) i needed to hang mics with the assistance of an intern stage crew. I didn't entirely trust this crew with my own mics, but they had some AKG's that I could settle for.

To hang the mics, the crew had to drop the line from the catwalk directly above a large sound baffle. There was no direct way down, so the mics had to slide off the baffle in order to get them into the hall. This was not the scary part. In the process of getting them back up (which they had to do several times to readjust) the mics would get stuck on the edge of the baffle. To pry them loose, the interns would yank the cable hard several times to slam the mics into the baffle until they wedged their way past the edge. I nearly screamed at them, even though it wasn't my equipment. Isn't someone supposed to train these idiots?

Needless to say, the AKG's were not in tip top shape. I could tell that one of the mic was damaged by the sound, so I didn't get a great recording, but at least my gear went unscathed.

[LX3]

All these stories are making me shudder. How the crap do these people get jobs in audio?

I make an effort to get on the right side of any house crew when I arrive, and I don't mind other people rigging parts of my gear.... as long as they understand my philosophy of "You break it, you buy it". Or equally, you stuff up my recording, YOU explain it to the client.

At which point, they usually leave it to me.

In fact, here in the UK (we don't have that union problem do we? I've never had anyone object to my crew rigging everything) I find most house techs don't want the responsibility of having very much to do with my rig. Suits me fine.

Kicking a 4011?? You would have had to restrain me from lamping the guy. Once I'd calmed down I would have written a letter to the venue and included a bill for a new DPA, with a committment to send them the damaged one when they pay up. That might at least have got me an apology and fired a rocket up the guy's ass.

Although recently, a band's production manager demonstrated how he wanted one of my big shotguns moved by swinging it on its boom, violently into the adjacent speaker stack. "WHY CAN'T YOU PUT IT THERE?". Luckily it already had a foam windshield on it, so no damage done. There are some lunatics working in the live music world, who seem to think their job is to interfere as much as possible with any "outsiders" that show up to their gig. Despite the fact that sometimes, these "outsiders" are the people who are paying their wages.

[tenor39]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I got to say...

This sounds like a chronic problem if this guy happens to damage your gear each and every time he's around...

His actions were completely unacceptable.
I trust you did something about this after the fact.
Perhaps a letter to the venue, lead union rep and such.

In any event, were your mics damaged in anyway?

Simply unbelievable; I'm now seriously pissed off about this crap!

I had a long talk with the IATSE head carpenter at the hall and he took care of the guy. Thankfully, none of the mic's were damaged (that I could tell), but I made it clear to the hall and the orchestra that if this occurred again there would be charges. I should have charged them just for the principal of it. What is wrong with people?