Spider>Mac Book Pro or iMac

[Dave Ferris]

............

[Jimbo]

Does the Spider now come with a FW audio interface built into it?

If not, and it doesn't look like it does, you'll need to buy a FW audio interface and run the spider's AES/SPDIF into the interface, and the interface into your Mac via a FW cable.

[Baithak]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

How would my newly purchased Crane Song Spider interface with the firewire connection on either an iMac or MBP ?

The Spider has SPDIF & AES.
Crane Song Spider Close-Up | Sweetwater.com

I called Dave Hill and he was uncertain himself.

Hey Dave : As an otherwise happy owner of the Spider, the lack of a firewire connection on it is my number one need to have. Unfortunately there are no simple AES to Firewire interfaces without buying a bunch of other stuff ... I go to the 744 with AES just now but have been eyeing the 788 as well. Hopefully some will soon create a nice cheap, reliable 8 channel AES I/O bit bucket - something like the little Sonosax but much cheaper.

Baithak

[Doc Mixwell]

There is no FW connection featured on a CS Spider.

This would work
AFI1

Otherwise, you need some other FW interface with ADAT or AES inputs.

Probably more gear than you need,

The Weiss is pretty expensive, but its the only product I know of that is really top of the line pro spec. Of course its Eight I/O over AES, so that leaves the Master Buss AD converters out to lunch, as the Spider has 10 channels of digital outputs.

[dynamo]

From what i see from the link's pic you could use the ADAT out with this:
M-AUDIO - ProFire Lightbridge - 34-in/36-out FireWire Lightpipe Interface
a short optical cable from the Spider to this little box won't affect
the quality at all - you don't need to go AES - and plus you get Protools
on the road...as well.

[Dave Ferris]

Originally Posted by dynamo

From what i see from the link's pic you could use the ADAT out with this:
M-AUDIO - ProFire Lightbridge - 34-in/36-out FireWire Lightpipe Interface
a short optical cable from the Spider to this little box won't affect
the quality at all - you don't need to go AES - and plus you get Protools
on the road...as well.

I like the price more than the Weiss. I do know they (Weiss) make some of the highest quality stuff around.

The A/D & pres on the M-Box won't get in the way of the A/D & pres on the Spider? Also I don't need it to be portable.

Is there a significant de-grading or inferior sound compared to the Weiss...or any $400-500 box v.s a higher end interface?

Thanks everyone for the responses.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

I like the price more than the Weiss. I do know they make some of the highest quality stuff around.

The A/D & pres on the M-Box won't get in the way of the A/D & pres on the Spider? Also I don't need it to be portable.

Is there a significant de-grading or inferior sound compared to the Weiss...or any $400-500 box v.s a higher end interface?

Thanks everyone for the responses.

Dave, I would not trust any of those consumer grade interfaces.

I think an Mbox is not the right product for you here, nor is this m-toy junk. Search the forums. That is a NIGHTMARE product that has stability issues. An Mbox has 2-channels of SPDIF and the Spider has Toslink optical for the stereo buss. Not only is it a crappy product, but, its not something that will allow you to interface eight channels. The M-toy thing is the only interface that lets you get higher than eight multi-channel ADAT I/O with Slo Tools. It seems you will be using Native DAW's on your computer, and not PT LE. I would never suggest something like that to interface a product like the Spider, which has 10 AES outputs, Eight ADAT outputs and 2 channels of Toslink optical for the master buss. AES is not limited in the same way that ADAT is, so if you plan to record 96K, ADAT is going to limit you.

Perhaps this is something you might not have planned for, but the BEST way to interface a Spider, is with an AES PCI-e card, in a desktop computer. The Laptop/Imac thing is not ideal, as adding another FW interface is really the only way to integrate this stand alone product. Besides the Weiss, I don't know of any other straight ahead FW-AES or ADAT boxes. There are plenty of boxes on the market that give you ADAT and limited 2-channel AES I/O, [some multi-channel, but not many] It would be well worth it, to invest in a Mac Pro, and a RME AES 32 card, or similar, so as to get the Spiders multi-channel Digital outputs into the computer. Also, just to note, getting another interface, with these options, would give you DAC for playback, which the Spider will not.

I'm sure the other guys will pick apart my post, like a pigeon to a dead rat in times square. Its just my opinion though.

[BrianHanke]

What about the TC Electronic DigitalKonnektX32? TC Electronic | DigitalKonnektX32

[Dave Ferris]

Thanks Adam.

You're right. In my very limited knowledge of this whole scenario, I knew I would need the D/A at some point. The interface, I didn't know it would be this big a problem. Now I see why the Orpheus and ULN-8 are so popular---all in one.

Yeah for the price of the Weiss interface I'm almost at the entry Mac Pro. Or perhaps the entry level Jim Roseberry/Studio Cat tower at $1200 might be an option but that rules out Logic...but then again I don't know anything about any of the software, I just have Logic 8 in my iMac right now waiting for someone to come over and tutor me.

[dynamo]

Dave,

There are no pre or AD in this interface. Did you actually check the link? Eventually some basic DA for the headphones and monitors. It's simply ADAT ins/outs to FW. It is just meant to provide a simple basic mean to transfer digits via FW to a laptop.

To me the Digi002R is not exactly an high-end box but I still use the ADAT port for my RAMSA AD external converter. It does the job and never noticed any problem. I use indeed a short optical cable.

There a similar digital only box/interface from RME if you are allergic to M Audio and Protools - which is an industry standard so far - but then again maybe you don't work for the others and do your own projects only or you just simply think Protools is doo-doo and does not work for you or...whatever it is. Not a lot of info from you to make an educated guess.

Anyway...

The RME box will again provide a simple mean to transfer ADAT to FW - which seems originally what you are simply looking for. You'll need to get also a RME Express card which slots in the laptop since RME use FW connection but a proprietary protocol. RME maybe a better quality product and your total would be around $ 1000. No sure. You'll need to have a MBP with Express card slot - which is the 17" model I think.
RME: Hammerfall DSP Digiface
RME: HDSPe ExpressCard

I'm just trying to give you some options to check out. I'm aware of the Weiss... http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...interface.html
I'm sure it is a fine product and if that kind of price makes sense for you and Weiss makes you feel better then go for it.

[Dave Ferris]

Yeah, I just kind of skimmed through it and saw...> A/D converters , preamps and thought it was part of the interface. Again my lack of knowledge in this field. We should be talking about how the Augmented scale functions over a Maj. 7th + 5 chord...then I'd be at home.

I have nothing against PT or any of the programs---I don't have any enough user knowledge to form an opinion... like I said I just happen to have Logic already installed in my new iMac. Also this is just for me and perhaps other jazz pianists and vocalists around town. They would come here because of the piano.

Thanks for the suggestions D, appreciated. Maybe I'll just get a Nagra VI, this would be easier.

edit...what about this adat vs aes connection for the Spider.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

Thanks Adam.

You're right. In my very limited knowledge of this whole scenario, I knew I would need the D/A at some point. The interface, I didn't know it would be this big a problem. Now I see why the Orpheus and ULN-8 are so popular---all in one.

Yeah for the price of the Weiss interface I'm almost at the entry Mac Pro. Or perhaps the entry level Jim Roseberry/Studio Cat tower at $1200 might be an option but that rules out Logic...but then again I don't know anything about any of the software, I just have Logic 8 in my iMac right now waiting for someone to come over and tutor me.

Yea, its starts to border on insanity!! Any interface with DAC, DSP mixer and ADAT inputs would be a good way to roll. Perhaps the Ensemble is a good option at a fraction of the price of the Prism, and certainly give you a lot for the dough. Whilst you now have an AMAZING front end, and need something stable with a Mac/Logic with Monitoring DAC. and Headphone amps. If anything I ever say or suggest on the forums is confusing, caused by my wording, or this stuff in general is a haze, you can always give the shop a call, as I'm certainly happy to de-mystify this malarky with digital/computers/etc.

Jim is a great guy! I'm sure that computer with Reaper or similar DAW would be awesome for you, once he builds and designs a monster that will never die, nor fail. Guys like Jim are really the only guys I would trust to build me a PC for recording, because an "off the shelf PC" is a nightmare. I would suspect you would be more than happy with his configurations, and I can tell you from experience, none of these DAW's are harder to use than another, even though they all require some learning curve. You might use one machine to record, and throw the Audio Data on the Mac to authorize CD's, who knows? There are Lots of roads to travel here.

I think the fact that you don't really have any software experience yet, is a bonus because you've yet to decide any preference for your work so, ultimately deciding which OS will be best for you, will be the way I think. Desktops are certainly more about being "professional audio computers" do to the connectivity and peripherals that can be had with one. I think once outfitted with at least 2-channels DAC, and enough Digital AES or ADAT Inputs to handle the Spider's outs, you're going to be cooking with gas, and you won't ever have to look back.

[Dave Ferris]

Adam, I know at times you take a lotta grief around here but I just want to say thanks for all your help and explanations with the technically challenged like myself.

I was able to get some sound out of this today thanks to Shawn @ Cranesong. This is going out of the SPDIF on the Spider into the Digital in on my infamous Marantz CDR300. I can't quite figure out how to add the reverb yet, the Spider isn't configured like the typical mixer with returns & sends that I'm used to.

2 DPA 4011s inside the piano and a Soundelux E49 in omni about 8' out in the room. Still waiting on the real engineer to come over and place the mics.

"Whisper Not" changes in all its 16 bit/ 44K glory.
Name that tune 3.mp3 - DivShare

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

Adam, I know at times you take a lotta grief around here but I just want to say thanks for all your help and explanations with the technically challenged like myself.

I was able to get some sound out of this today thanks to Shawn @ Cranesong. This is going out of the SPDIF on the Spider into the Digital in on my infamous Marantz CDR300. I can't quite figure out how to add the reverb yet, the Spider isn't configured like the typical mixer with returns & sends that I'm used to.

2 DPA 4011s inside the piano and a Soundelux E49 in omni about 8' out in the room. Still waiting on the real engineer to come over and place the mics.

"Whisper Not" changes in all its 16 bit/ 48K glory.
Name that tune 3.mp3 - DivShare

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the kind words.

Whatever grief is slung my way is totally worth avoiding, so as to help the people that need help. It makes it all worthwhile for me, when I know that I am helping. At any rate, I can certainly hear the Spider in this clip! Its sounds really smooooooth, which is how CS gear puts itself on the map. I think you will certainly start to see the benefit of 24 bit recording with a computer. You will have MUCH higher fidelity, and even more room to play.

With regard to the reverb, there are more than a couple ways to skin this octopus. Here are a couple thoughts: If you want to put reverb over one of the mics, you can use one of the Insert Send/Return on the Spider, with an external reverb unit set to 50% dry/50% wet, not the usual 100% wet for returning in parallel. This is just one way, but you could use a standard "Y" TRS to Send TS and Return TS cable found @ any banjo mart location, into the verb unit, blend to taste, and viola! Another way, could be to just use the E49 as a "verb"? That would be cool, I venture.

I usually set my clients up with a patch bay, so that all the inserts come up on the bay 1/2 NORMAL, which allows you to SPLIT the Insert Send, into other devices, and you can then return the devices to other channels on the Spider and blend to taste. You can even do that with the above method, as you would use the Vocal Mic insert send to a verb and return it to another spider channel, while the Vocal Channel is still dry and returning to the vocal Channel AD converter properly. You've really got to have a 1/2 NORM P-bay to do this, but it can be done. Hope this makes sense, its early and I have yet to be properly caffeinated!!!

[Daniel Stark]

honestly i would get something with the following.....

1) ADAT in for the multitrack
2) s/pdif in for the 2-track
3) 8 analog outs so you can run your tracks back through the spider to mix (after adding reverb, eq, etc in Logic) OR ADAT outs so you can add a DA down the line.

Then you'll be cookin!! Whoa mama. Profire Lightbridge and Hammerfall are good suggestions----- In my opinion putting any more money in between the Cranesong and the Firewire won't help you as it's already digital. The drivers are what counts here IMO.

[NorseHorse]

+1 - Good advice.

[Dave Ferris]

I'm re-thinking my recording to the computer for the time being. Just too much practicing, gigs and teaching going on to worry about interfaces, AES , ADAT, Logic, etc, etc.

So either one a preference? I guess I'd be bypassing the A/D and pres with the Spider to just get the D/A, monitoring and 24/96. Again we're talking piano and vocal, 3-4 mics, get a balance, hit record and go. The CD burning capability of the Tascam is nice, I could use that with the singers I work with. The support of Sound Devices is very appealing, no phone hold for 15 minutes only to speak with a possible knucklehead. I would have the option of using the SD's pres and converters with just the two mics on the Steinway for just solo piano. A different color than the spider.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts for the jazz guy.

[Daniel Stark]

Hey Dave, you can do that if you really feel it's too much work (and if you are confident in your mix on the fly skills). But I would really say it's selling the possibilities of that rig way short.....

Spend a day or two with Reaper (free DAW download); add the AirEQ free demo, and spend time getting it interfaced with the Spider. There's plenty of folks here who will help walk you through it. Your rig will be in 2012 instead of 2005.

And I mean, I hate interfaces. I hate multitracking. Unless it's a Spider...Then you are mixing 8 Hedd-converted tracks through one of the best mix buss out there (used by many mastering houses).

[Daniel Stark]

And it ain't that hard..... ADAT out to ADAT in, set tracks 1-8 to record, save that as your default project, and you're good to go. One cable, 8 tracks. Pretty slick.

OTOH the Spider and DV-RA1000 would be even easier than that and would still sound kick ass.