Which choir recording should I Listen to?

dortola · 19th July 2009

I’m starting to record on location, mainly choirs. Usually 20 to 50 people (should I say mid size choirs?).
My question is the following. Which recordings of this size of choirs would you suggest me to listen/buy to start training my ears on the way a choir should sound?
Even though most of the songs are popular music from South America (I live in Argentina), they also sing classical pieces and some gospel songs.
So, any suggestions would be very welcome. Hope my question is not too off topic.
Thanks!

Hic&Nunc · 19th July 2009

I would suggest you to go and listen to as much live performances as you can. Your ears must first be trained to the real thing.

audibell · 19th July 2009

Hi,
I would find a cathedral in your area and listen to their choir chant, as in Gregorian (cantus planus), to learn what the human voice is capable of in a large reverberant space. Next, listen to any church choir singing motetti by GPPalestrina or Tomas Luis Vittoria, to get a feel for polyphony and a capella singing. Next, add instruments, and I don't mean organ but chamber orchestra with choral accompanyment - Handel, Hayden, Mozart, there's always something going on in bigger cities at Christmas or Easter.
After you can tell the difference, you're ready to talk to the choir director. Which choirs does she listen to for pleasure? if any. If she listens to Eurovision Song contest stuff, your search is done but if she listens to the Tallis Scholars and the Nederlands Kamerkoor, then you have challenging times ahead.
Some people use a soundfield microphone technique, others just use an omni spaced pair. If you use M/S:XY, put the women on either side of the group and the men in the middle for a starting balance: there's a reason there's only one piccolo in an orchestra. Choirs in Anglophone countries are commonly 70:30 pct, women to men, so if you're tempted to spot mic the men, favor the bass section and not the tenors. You'll discover why, later.
Choir is as difficult to get right as a grand piano and there are about as many techniques but as the previous poster said, first you have to know what the different periods are supposed to sound like live, not off a CD.
Good luck,
WT

madamasuka · 6th September 2009

Eric Whitacre... modern colors, try listening to "Cloudburst".

joelpatterson · 6th September 2009

At the risk of being the barber whom you asked about needing a haircut...

4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download Kyrie (from Missa Breivs) -- Albany Pro Musica.mp3

This was done in a fairly huge cathedral, chorus onstage and ringed with three stereo sets of mics from about twenty feet away.

NorseHorse · 6th September 2009

Listening to gregorian chant isn't going to help you with pop or gospel though!

Pick up some Kirk Franklin to hear standard gospel, and listen to Acappella U - The Collegiate A Cappella Podcast to hear what many pop a cappella group are doing.

The main differences in the types of choral music are the distance from which you'll mic the groups and the number of mics needed.

Teddy Ray · 8th September 2009

Amazon.com: Arvo Part: Te Deum / Kaljuste, Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir: Arvo Part, Tonu Karljuste, Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir: Music

Lauridsen: Lux Aeterna / Salamunovich, LA Master Chorale - RCM - RCM 19705 - 707651970521 - HBDirect

Carmina Burana Amazon.com: Orff: Carmina Burana / McNair, Aler, Hagegard; Slatkin: Carl Orff, Leonard Slatkin, Sylvia McNair, John Aler, Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra & Chorus, Hakan Hagegard: Music (my favorite)

jnorman · 8th September 2009

teddy nailed it - you cannot beat arvo part's te deum, and lux aeterna by lauridsen is one of my all time favorite CDs. i recorded a flute/harp duo doing "dirait-on" - absolutely cool...

Teddy Ray · 9th September 2009

oh yeah...

couple more.

Easter Oratorio

Amazon.com: J.S. Bach: Oster-Oratorium: Peter Kooy, Johann Sebastian Bach, Philippe Herreweghe, Collegium Vocale, Barbara Schlick, James Taylor: Music

Ein Deutsches Requiem
Amazon.com: Brahms: Ein deutsches Requiem [A German Requiem]: Johannes Brahms, Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia Orchestra and Chorus, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau: Music

Poulenc Stabat Mater
Amazon.com: Poulenc: Gloria; Stabat Mater: Francis Poulenc, Georges Prêtre, Orchestre National de France, Barbara Hendricks: Music

and one of the best sounding music DVDs ever..
Amazon.com: Verdi - Requiem / Angela Gheorghiu, Roberto Alagna, Daniela Barcellona, Julian Konstantinov, Claudio Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic: Angela Gheorghiu, Daniela Barcellona, Roberto Alagna, Julian Konstantinov, Claudio Abbado, Berlin Opera Phil

NorseHorse · 9th September 2009

You all did catch that he said they're singing pop songs, right?

Dortola, I would take a look at some of the pieces that you've already recording and look up some "major label" releases of those same pieces. Also, ask the choir directors what recordings they are listening to.

Re: TeddyRay - Yes, and some classical.

Teddy Ray · 9th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

You all did catch that he said they're singing pop songs, right?

Dortola, I would take a look at some of the pieces that you've already recording and look up some "major label" releases of those same pieces. Also, ask the choir directors what recordings they are listening to.

you did catch that he said classical too, right?

for gospel stuff...this is pretty good...an urban take on Messiah

Amazon.com: Handel's Messiah: A Soulful Celebration: Dianne Reeves, Patti Austin, Stevie Wonder, George Duke, Take 6, Al Jarreau: Music

ptr · 9th September 2009

A classic two mike recording of Choir is the Album Cantate Domino on Proprius records (recorded in the mid seventies by Bertil Alving).. Stunning sound! But it will only give You a hint about how the Swedish Choral tradition sound like..

But I still think that the best advise was given ealy in the tread, sit in on (and record) all the choirs rehersals and concerts to get a feel for thier sound!

/ptr

matthewd · 10th September 2009

Hi

In my opinion Polyphony are one of the best choirs around at the moment and regularly release CDs on the Hyperion label. I particularly like their Bruckner disc which was recorded by Simon Eadon who always seems to get a great sound. I've heard them live and they are just as awesome as their recordings which is comforting.

Matt

Nobilmente · 17th September 2009

Elgar and Delius Partsongs

Louis Halsey Singers - Argo

Review | ELGAR. Partsongs. Louis Halsey Singers directed by Louis Halsey. Argo ZRG607 (43s. 9d.). | Page*62 - June*1969 - Gramophone Archive.).

ZK 23 LOUIS HALSEY SINGERS Delius/Elgar Partsongs LP on eBay (end time 16-Oct-09 00:53:52 BST)

Remembered from some time ago, but it made a big impression, that still remains.

leadplayer · 18th September 2009

Check out HYMN, by the American Boychoir on Angel Records.
Recorded at St. George's in NY. It's (essentially) just a pair of
4006's w/ some spots on the Orchestra of St. Luke (16 pieces--
small chamber sized).

maestro · 18th September 2009

Chanticleer!

Raider · 18th September 2009

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir aboslutely rocks!

To me that is the modern "standard" for how a choir should sound.

(And no I'm not Mormon.)

The Official Site of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir

JEGG · 19th September 2009

My Plush story:

Quite a few years ago, several trusted colleagues (and myself) were receiving CD's from a music publisher oriented towards what we do. These were simply phenomenal recordings. And these things were coming from a damned music publisher! This went on for a couple of years. Everytime they would arrive we would compare them with our favorite mostly European and usually British recordings, but included ECM label recordings and others. They were better than anything we had ever heard that was commercially released. The performers were equally amazing. What was going on here?

I couldn't stand it any more, and I had to find out WHO was making these recordings. So I called the publisher and went through a surprisingly long chain of real humans getting to the top. As I neared the top of the organization, people started getting noticeably defensive. They thought I was out after their trade secrets. Nobody would spill, but I finally got through to the head honcho-who had clearly heard that someone was asking questions. After some hesitant silences and some uttered questions, the guy figured out I was not a competitor and spilled the beans.

Well, it was Plush. So I called him up and asked him how he got these sounds. Some of you might not think of Plush as self deprecating or humble (now!!!), but he was (is?), and blamed all of the results on the room. After that he was quite generous with specific techniques and mic's.

I didn't meet Plush until quite a few years later I moved to Chi Town. Plush has made some fine, fine, fine, choral recordings. And lots of others, too.

19th July 2009	#1
dortola Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Posts: 62 Thread Starter	Which choir recording should I Listen to? I’m starting to record on location, mainly choirs. Usually 20 to 50 people (should I say mid size choirs?). My question is the following. Which recordings of this size of choirs would you suggest me to listen/buy to start training my ears on the way a choir should sound? Even though most of the songs are popular music from South America (I live in Argentina), they also sing classical pieces and some gospel songs. So, any suggestions would be very welcome. Hope my question is not too off topic. Thanks!

19th July 2009	#2
Hic&Nunc Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brussels Posts: 26	I would suggest you to go and listen to as much live performances as you can. Your ears must first be trained to the real thing. __________________ hicnunc@skynet.be http://www.hicnunc.be

19th July 2009	#3
audibell Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 284	Listening to choirs Hi, I would find a cathedral in your area and listen to their choir chant, as in Gregorian (cantus planus), to learn what the human voice is capable of in a large reverberant space. Next, listen to any church choir singing motetti by GPPalestrina or Tomas Luis Vittoria, to get a feel for polyphony and a capella singing. Next, add instruments, and I don't mean organ but chamber orchestra with choral accompanyment - Handel, Hayden, Mozart, there's always something going on in bigger cities at Christmas or Easter. After you can tell the difference, you're ready to talk to the choir director. Which choirs does she listen to for pleasure? if any. If she listens to Eurovision Song contest stuff, your search is done but if she listens to the Tallis Scholars and the Nederlands Kamerkoor, then you have challenging times ahead. Some people use a soundfield microphone technique, others just use an omni spaced pair. If you use M/S:XY, put the women on either side of the group and the men in the middle for a starting balance: there's a reason there's only one piccolo in an orchestra. Choirs in Anglophone countries are commonly 70:30 pct, women to men, so if you're tempted to spot mic the men, favor the bass section and not the tenors. You'll discover why, later. Choir is as difficult to get right as a grand piano and there are about as many techniques but as the previous poster said, first you have to know what the different periods are supposed to sound like live, not off a CD. Good luck, WT

6th September 2009	#4
madamasuka Gear interested Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1	Try.. Eric Whitacre... modern colors, try listening to "Cloudburst".

6th September 2009	#5
joelpatterson Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 9,075	At the risk of being the barber whom you asked about needing a haircut... 4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download Kyrie (from Missa Breivs) -- Albany Pro Musica.mp3 This was done in a fairly huge cathedral, chorus onstage and ringed with three stereo sets of mics from about twenty feet away. __________________ Mountaintop Studios ~the peak of perfection~ Petersburgh NY 12138 mountaintop@taconic.net www.joelpatterson.us

6th September 2009	#6
NorseHorse Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DC Posts: 2,067 2 Reviews written	Listening to gregorian chant isn't going to help you with pop or gospel though! Pick up some Kirk Franklin to hear standard gospel, and listen to Acappella U - The Collegiate A Cappella Podcast to hear what many pop a cappella group are doing. The main differences in the types of choral music are the distance from which you'll mic the groups and the number of mics needed. __________________ I-95, I-64, I-85 FS: Three sets of headphones ($35)

8th September 2009	#7
Teddy Ray Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Carolina is where they'll bury me. Posts: 7,098	Amazon.com: Arvo Part: Te Deum / Kaljuste, Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir: Arvo Part, Tonu Karljuste, Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir: Music Lauridsen: Lux Aeterna / Salamunovich, LA Master Chorale - RCM - RCM 19705 - 707651970521 - HBDirect Carmina Burana Amazon.com: Orff: Carmina Burana / McNair, Aler, Hagegard; Slatkin: Carl Orff, Leonard Slatkin, Sylvia McNair, John Aler, Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra & Chorus, Hakan Hagegard: Music (my favorite) __________________ "I would shoot a man if he put me through autotune" - Charlie Louvin

8th September 2009	#8
jnorman Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,717 1 Review written	teddy nailed it - you cannot beat arvo part's te deum, and lux aeterna by lauridsen is one of my all time favorite CDs. i recorded a flute/harp duo doing "dirait-on" - absolutely cool... __________________ jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon

9th September 2009	#9
Teddy Ray Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Carolina is where they'll bury me. Posts: 7,098	oh yeah... couple more. Easter Oratorio Amazon.com: J.S. Bach: Oster-Oratorium: Peter Kooy, Johann Sebastian Bach, Philippe Herreweghe, Collegium Vocale, Barbara Schlick, James Taylor: Music Ein Deutsches Requiem Amazon.com: Brahms: Ein deutsches Requiem [A German Requiem]: Johannes Brahms, Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia Orchestra and Chorus, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau: Music Poulenc Stabat Mater Amazon.com: Poulenc: Gloria; Stabat Mater: Francis Poulenc, Georges Prêtre, Orchestre National de France, Barbara Hendricks: Music and one of the best sounding music DVDs ever.. Amazon.com: Verdi - Requiem / Angela Gheorghiu, Roberto Alagna, Daniela Barcellona, Julian Konstantinov, Claudio Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic: Angela Gheorghiu, Daniela Barcellona, Roberto Alagna, Julian Konstantinov, Claudio Abbado, Berlin Opera Phil

9th September 2009	#12
ptr Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sweden Posts: 18	A classic two mike recording of Choir is the Album Cantate Domino on Proprius records (recorded in the mid seventies by Bertil Alving).. Stunning sound! But it will only give You a hint about how the Swedish Choral tradition sound like.. But I still think that the best advise was given ealy in the tread, sit in on (and record) all the choirs rehersals and concerts to get a feel for thier sound! /ptr

10th September 2009	#13
matthewd Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 162	Hi In my opinion Polyphony are one of the best choirs around at the moment and regularly release CDs on the Hyperion label. I particularly like their Bruckner disc which was recorded by Simon Eadon who always seems to get a great sound. I've heard them live and they are just as awesome as their recordings which is comforting. Matt

17th September 2009	#14
Nobilmente Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 507	Elgar and Delius Partsongs Louis Halsey Singers - Argo Review \| ELGAR. Partsongs. Louis Halsey Singers directed by Louis Halsey. Argo ZRG607 (43s. 9d.). \| Page62 - June1969 - Gramophone Archive.). ZK 23 LOUIS HALSEY SINGERS Delius/Elgar Partsongs LP on eBay (end time 16-Oct-09 00:53:52 BST) Remembered from some time ago, but it made a big impression, that still remains.

18th September 2009	#15
leadplayer Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 51	Check out HYMN, by the American Boychoir on Angel Records. Recorded at St. George's in NY. It's (essentially) just a pair of 4006's w/ some spots on the Orchestra of St. Luke (16 pieces-- small chamber sized).

18th September 2009	#16
maestro Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 401	Chanticleer!

18th September 2009	#17
Raider Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 361	The Mormon Tabernacle Choir aboslutely rocks! To me that is the modern "standard" for how a choir should sound. (And no I'm not Mormon.) The Official Site of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir

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19th September 2009	#18
JEGG Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 924	Check out Mr. Plush himself My Plush story: Quite a few years ago, several trusted colleagues (and myself) were receiving CD's from a music publisher oriented towards what we do. These were simply phenomenal recordings. And these things were coming from a damned music publisher! This went on for a couple of years. Everytime they would arrive we would compare them with our favorite mostly European and usually British recordings, but included ECM label recordings and others. They were better than anything we had ever heard that was commercially released. The performers were equally amazing. What was going on here? I couldn't stand it any more, and I had to find out WHO was making these recordings. So I called the publisher and went through a surprisingly long chain of real humans getting to the top. As I neared the top of the organization, people started getting noticeably defensive. They thought I was out after their trade secrets. Nobody would spill, but I finally got through to the head honcho-who had clearly heard that someone was asking questions. After some hesitant silences and some uttered questions, the guy figured out I was not a competitor and spilled the beans. Well, it was Plush. So I called him up and asked him how he got these sounds. Some of you might not think of Plush as self deprecating or humble (now!!!), but he was (is?), and blamed all of the results on the room. After that he was quite generous with specific techniques and mic's. I didn't meet Plush until quite a few years later I moved to Chi Town. Plush has made some fine, fine, fine, choral recordings. And lots of others, too.