Backup decision...

[Howie J]

OK, so I've spent WAY too many hours on here the last couple days reading up on flash/HD recorder for a new backup solution. Actually a second backup solution.

I currently record to PTLE through a 002R to my Mac Book then run a SPDIF out to a Marantz CDR-631 CD burner. It worked officially OK. About every 6th CD it didn't like. I was running TDK's all year FWIW.

I record around 25+ band/orch/choir concerts and the teachers like having a very quick (i.e. the next day) rough two track for review and teaching purposes. The CD is great when it works. Finalize. Done. and I can get some sleep instead of bouncing till 3 AM.

I don't think I have the budget for it, but if money wasn't an issue I'd go for a SD 722 and have it done with. Those things straight out ROCK....but my thoughts are this:

Zoom H4n: This thing seems to be one of the best "bang/buck" deals out there. Everyone's raving for the most part. No digital ins, but it seems the pres/line in's would be sufficient for a backup. Yes? Plus the 4 track is sweet for quick things I have to do for my brass quintet and at work.

Korg MR-1000: DSD/1bit really pulls me in, but is it really worth the extra $750? I was thinking of getting a Fathead II Blumlein set for that. (could get the Lundahl Xformers too)

I looked into some of the rack mount flash/HD recorders, but then you loose portability, sooo.

So is the line in to a H4n a respectable option? Seems to be.

Thanks for reading me answering my own questions...

Howie J

[Corran]

Using the H4 as a backup device here. No complaints, but you can't really bypass the pres. But I haven't found it an issue. Plus it makes for a stellar two-track recorder. I can get 45 minutes of recording out of a pair of AA batteries running a pair of Schoeps mics. Makes small recording projects a snap.

Doesn't the M-audio Microtrack have a SPDIF in? I don't like the Microtrack for the most part but if you can SPDIF in a digital backup that would probably be even better. But I wouldn't use it for recording like I would the H4 personally.

[Howie J]

Corran,

Thanks for that. You know, the one thing that pushed me to the H4n and relaxed my digital/S/PDIF hang up was that I'm still going to use the CD burner and I will probably do that via S/PDIF. The biggest question/issue with it is using the combo ins as line ins. I guess at that price level for a backup you're going to get a certain level of noise no matter what. As long as it's not too offensive.

Howie J

[Corran]

Yeah if you've got two backups, more power to you!

Basically I notice a slight coloration of the sound from the line-ins, but beggars can't be choosers in an emergency situation I guess. Unless you are willing to fork over all that extra cash. And would still probably have a slight change in sound even with something as nice as the MR-1000.

[_Morph_]

Corran,
For what you know, would a Marantz PMD661 or a Tascam DR-100 be a step up, or on par with the Zoom machine?

[Corran]

Honestly I don't know, haven't used them. They have similar features but it looks like the others also have some cool additional things, like the Marantz has actual LED metering or the Tascam has a lithium battery as well as AA battery support. Now the H4n I haven't used either so it might be a step up too.

For the price they must have some better features/components. I'd love to try them out. It doesn't look like the Marantz is as portable (and I have used one of their minidisk recorders and didn't like it) but the Tascam looks really nice.

It's great that their are so many more options coming out with actual XLR jacks but at the same time which do you choose??

[_Morph_]

Originally Posted by Corran

It's great that their are so many more options coming out with actual XLR jacks

Precisely.
Thanks for your point of view, anyway!

[noamraz]

What i like in the H4n is it's ability to record 4 tracks - This will be a good low-cost backup in case of absolut disaster:
2 channels : L+R of FOH
2 channels : Ambiance / Crowd using the built-in mics

my 2 cents..

[rumleymusic]

Corran,
For what you know, would a Marantz PMD661 or a Tascam DR-100 be a step up, or on par with the Zoom machine?

I just got a DR-100 to replace my DR-1. I generally prefer them to the Zooms, but I have not heard the H4N, which is supposed to be a significant jump in quality over the H4. The Tascam does have great features to use as a backup, superb sound quality, and the automatic lithium to AA battery switching is great if you are doing a longer session.

[Howie J]

I just bought my H4n this afternoon. I'm going to use it to record some brass quintet stuff next tuesday. I'll try and post some clips for everyone.

I think I'm going to use the 4 track mode to do the recording and attach a pair of my AT3032 omni's to flank the XY of the Zoom. Or I could get my 4050's and do an MS and try the MS decoder on it. Decisions, Decisions.

Howie J

[Howie J]

OK, so I'll stay true to my word here. I set up the H4n at my brass quintet rehearsal tonight. I had it in 4 ch mode with an AB spaced pair of AT 3032 omnis out to the sides. These clips are ONLY with the H4n however. I used the built in mics in the 120° setting. I put it on my Ultimate extension stand about ~3 ft above the quintet and about 6 feet back or so.

The good: Fairly impressed with sound. For a $350 unit and it's convenience you really can't argue the pre's. Easy setup. Easy file transfer

The bad: Ate through batteries like crazy with Phantom power on, 4 channels running at 24/44.1 but that's to be expected I guess. I had a limiter on, but still had some distortion on some tracks. I have to play around with that yet. I'm pretty sure I had the built in mics set at 60 out of 100.

As mentioned previously, these were done at 24 bit/44.1 Khz with just the H4n mics. I bounced them to MP3 in ProTools.

(We definitely left a few notes in the hall, but hopefully more sound critique than playing...)

Howie J

[Corran]

It really depends on the mics whether or not it will eat the batteries. With my Earthworks mics the batteries are gone in about 2 minutes, but with my Schoeps they last about 45 minutes.

I don't know if they fixed this with the H4n (doesn't sound like it), but the gain control from 0-100 is digital gain, so if it clips in the analog stage you are out of luck. So set the gain conservatively. That's my one problem with the H4, having only 3 gain settings. Even at the lowest setting, high-output mics clip the analog stage.

The clip sounds decent, nothing obviously wrong with it. I'd like to hear the outboard mics to compare.

[Howie J]

If I remember correctly (I set it up in a hurry and I haven't mastered the little thing yet)I had the same setting on the extra mics and they were more than fine. The built in's seem a little hot. They were more centered and got the brunt of the sound too.

As far as the batteries. I recorded almost an hour straight of 24/44.1 in 4 ch mode with Phantom on and no "Stamina" mode and still had a bar left on the battery counter. From what I read in ye olde manual today that is three steps from being dead. I just get nervous when I see one battery bar on anything after running live stuff all year. If it's anywhere close, new ones go in.

Howie J