Royer SF12 vs AEA R88 vs 4038 pair

[cdog]

I'm considering buying a stereo ribbon mic or pair.

I have used all of these mics but not at the same time or place - all with good results.

Anyone have a chance to compare them directly?

Please suggest other ribbons I have not used that would make for a nice stereo pair (although I'm leaning towards 2 elements in 1 body for ease of use).

My intended uses include ambience and audience micing, Foley sounds, location recording, "nature" sounds, subways, busses, traffic, the ocean.... Oh, and probably some musical instruments also.

A few specs/notes from the manuals:

(The THD specs are apples and oranges because they are measured at different frequncies, with THD being inversely related to frequency.)

Coles 4038s have 1% THD @ 125db SPL @ 110 hz, and they can be easily damaged by 48v power according to the user manual. They also note the original 4038 design by the BBC is 50 years old. Their frequency response is pretty flat up to 10khz, where it then falls way off.

The R88 has a 1% THD @ 165db SPL @ above 1khz, the manual makes no mention of phantom power damage, and the frequency response is raggedly sloped down to the left starting @ 200hz, going down about 5db @ 10khz but then only down about 7db @ 15khz and 10db @ 18khz, with lots of little peaks and valleys in between.

The SF12 has a max SPL of 130db (no frequency stated), although they suggest using it as a drum overhead which makes me think it can take more than that from snare or cymbal blasts, the mic will not be damaged by phantom power, and the frequency response is remarkably flat all the way up to 15khz, going down only about 5 db @ 18khz.

I would say most of these specs confirm what I have heard. The R88 is a little bigger and warmer sounding, the 4038s have a "classic" ribbon tone, and the SF12 is somewhat flatter and more airy than the other two. I dont recall output levels.

The preamp for all location work will be an Apogee MiniMe - it has a mic input impedence of 1200 ohms and has 65db or clean gain - should be fine. Studio work will be with a variety of SS and tube outboard mic pres.

Thoughts, opinions, please discuss stereo ribbon mics and techniques below.

[Lanstar Zero]

The sf12 would be the most durable if that's a factor. I don't think any of those are the best option for ambience recording, or at least I wouldn't pick them for that purpose.

[NathanEldred]

Those might be a little delicate for outdoor/foley/location and wouldn't be my first choice (not to mention their low sensitivity). Personally I'd go for a pair of quiet small diaphragm wide cardiods. Hotter output, you don't have to deal with a null on the side, and they are going to be a lot tougher and more easily portable.

[Robobo1]

I own an SF12 and have access to 4038s.... I will be A-B'ing them side-by-side this Saturday in a session (on sax). The loser probably goes over to a (low-in-SPL) guitar amp.

I'll let you know how it goes.

I would NOT take my SF12 outside, even if I bought the "fuzzy bunny" for it. Too expensive and too fragile IMHO. Apart from damage cause by wind, the ribbon element easily attracts dust.

[cdog]

Well, you guys made some good points... indeed, ribbons are susceptible to wind, are delicate and fragile and prone to collecting dust.

But there is also no substitute for the sound of real ribbons, so I am willing to accept these compromises for the timbral qualities I am looking for - specifically, midrange smoothness, realism, and a nice stereo field. I have several pairs of SD and LD condensers, and I'm not throwing them out the window or crossing them off the list for all location recordings.

Now, aside from forays into the wilderness or subways, I will using the mic/s for general purpose studio use - classical Indan music being a prime candidate. Tambura, Sarod, Sitar, Flute - these intstruments can be difficult to record because of their strong high mid frequency content which ribbons can smooth out nicely.

Its looking like I'm going for the SF12.

[warhead]

You could consider a pair of Beyer M160 which are hypercardioid and deliver "real" ribbon-ness...

War

[DanRock101]

Rise.....RISE OH OLD DEAD GEARSLUTZ THREAD! It's alive....IT'S ALIIIIIIIIVE!!!!!!!

Ok, have any o' you Slutz had experience with all 3 of these in stereo?
I have the Coles and LOVE it's fatness! I've been seeing a ton of people using the SF12 for everything (guitar, lots of drum work, classical work), and I've been told that the R88 is in between the FATNESS of the Coles and the OPENESS of the SF12......

What say you Slutz?

[TonyF]

A pair of AEA44 ribbons just saved my bacon recording in an 11th Century chapel in France. Looked a simple piano recording on paper until I arrived at the venue for the first time. Four and a half second beautiful even and very long hovering plummy reverb. The piano sounded as though it was in the Taj Mahal. My usual M50 pair at the front sounded accurate, but that meant it sounded as though the piano was up an Alp somewhere.

Pair of AEA ribbons at the foot of the piano did the trick. The 90deg null of the fig8 tamed the never-ending reverberation tail, and some simple foam screens 2m or 3m back borrowed from a local studio finished the job.

Never forget ribbons in your mic cupboard. They have their own way of doing things and sometimes they are simply irreplaceable. We just recorded a live soprano+lute recital in a London concert hall and I thought I would see how our Royer SF24 sounded and it was really beautiful.

[aracu]

Originally Posted by TonyF

They have their own way of doing things and sometimes they are simply irreplaceable.

This sounds like good advice for sure. I find that compared to omnis, ribbons (and figure eights in general) can capture the essense of a space while keeping it under control and minimizing noise, and with great imaging possibilities.

What your thoughts these days on spaced figure eights?

[Chris Wilson]

Once you get an SF-12, let's see how much you feel like taking it on the subway outside of a Pelican Case. That said, the SF-12 has become the hardest working mic I own. The figure of 8 response really helps get a handle on the blending of direct and diffuse sound. If I had it to do over again, I would likely get two SF-1's so there could be a spaced figure of 8 option, Faulkner style.