Which of these mics to go with the A2D?

[Welkin]

Hi folks. I've come to the conclusion that A2D will be my first real pro pre. I have a budget of 1000 € / $ for a mic (or two mics) to complement it and I'd appreciate your input especially if you have tried the following mics with the A2D.

These are the main options that I think would work for my purposes and these I can get with the A2D from the same dealer meaning a competitive price: AEA R84, AKG 414 XLS, Audio Technica 4047, Röde K2. Also the rest of the Röde line and all Blue mics fitting my budget are possible. The K2 is cheap enough to fit something like a Shure SM7 to the budget but I don't want to get the Röde just because it's cheap.

I record mainly vocals (both female and male, sung and spoken) and strings and the mic doesn't have to work with anything else, therefore the AEA ribbon interests me the most. Of course Röde K2 and Shure SM7 would cover more grounds for the same price but I'll only get those if I'm confident that the K2 is the best mic I can get for a grand.

By the way are all new A2Ds equipped with the Word Clock option?

[Stepwise Sound]

Hey,

Why don't you get an SM7 and an AT 40 series mic (4050, 4033, or 4047).

Serious mics, you will have your bases covered, you get your dynamic sound with the SM7 and the studio condenser sound from the AT mics. Major studios are using all of these mics -- they are robust and workhorses. Great deals too!

I dunno an AEA R84 would not be my first choice as far as a first or go-to vocal mic -- especially not considering you are talking about this as potentially being your ONLY mic.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by Stepwise Sound

Why don't you get an SM7 and an AT 40 series mic (4050, 4033, or 4047).

I dunno an AEA R84 would not be my first choice as far as a first or go-to vocal mic -- especially not considering you are talking about this as potentially being your ONLY mic.

Thanks Dave. I wasn't making my self clear. My budget for the mic is a grand for now and I will invest more later when necessary. Therefore I'd like to invest the grand to a mic that I know will be superb in some tasks even if it wouldn't be he most versatile mic for the money. I know that the AEA can be the best mic in the world for many vocals and it's gotten high praise in string recording. Would you consider the SM7 and AT4047 (my top choice from the ATs) just versatile workhorse mics or also the best tools for many tasks?

What if I had 2000 € / $ for the mics? Would R84, SM7 and AT4047 cover all bases or would you recommend some single more expensive mic instead? The point is to get mics that I want to keep.

[solo-bration]

you'd keep a C414. *Unless rent was way overdue :/

ps - yes, the new A2D's come with the word clock option.

[DaVogi]

A2D, SM7 and 4047/4050 sounds like a pretty solid start for me. I would go with that if I had to record mainly voices but therefore several.

one other posibility would be a 1000 bucks condenser like a gefell... but than you got only this single mic.

I would not start with a ribbon only...

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by solo-bration

you'd keep a C414.

Even the XLS? I've used some older 414s and the XLS with the push buttons seems flimsy in comparison.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by DaVogi

A2D, SM7 and 4047/4050 sounds like a pretty solid start for me. I would go with that if I had to record mainly voices but therefore several.

one other posibility would be a 1000 bucks condenser like a gefell... but than you got only this single mic.

I would not start with a ribbon only...

Would you consider the Gefell M930 to be a better LDC than the 4047? What if I had two grand? Would M930 and R84 be the best choice or would I still need the SM7?

The sound of a violin is a key factor for me in this. I've recorded violin with all sorts of condensers including expensive ones and never really loved the results. That's why the R84 is really intriguing for me.

[DaVogi]

LDCs are so special on voices .. I havent a/b the 4047 with the gefells so I could not comment on that.

if you NEED an sm7? depends heavily on which type of music you record. haven't used the R84 but I guess a good ribbon and ldc cover most bases in terms of acoustic, soft, jazz, pop, hifi-ish and lots of rock-vocals... where a sm7 COULD be better on indy type rock vocals, midrange punchy, shouts/screams or if you have to record in bad sounding places.

so what type of vocals you record mostly?

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by DaVogi

so what type of vocals you record mostly?

I'm a composer and sound designer and do mainly media and theatre so I have to record all types of vocalists but also the clients aren't that picky about my gear. I just want something that I'm comfortable with. Vocals and strings are still impossible to do realistically with samples so that's the reason why I most often record those. I play violin and viola myself.

[Fletcher]

Of the ones you listed the AEA R-84 is the only one I would consider a quality tool... but I'm sure there are many who would disagree with that statement [and in their reality be absolutely correct].

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Of the ones you listed the AEA R-84 is the only one I would consider a quality tool... but I'm sure there are many who would disagree with that statement [and in their reality be absolutely correct].

So which LDCs would you consider to be in the same rank as the R84? I assume that a ribbon mic isn't a particularly cheap thing to manufacture so there should be quality condensers in the same price range, right?

[Welkin]

What would you think about getting a R84 and a 414 XLS with the A2D? Is the 414 XLS still the legendary 414 after all the updates or is it a completely different mic? Would it be put to shame by the R84 or would it suffice as my only LDC option? Would this setup be too vintage and should I pick a more modern sounding LDC? Which one would that be?

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Welkin

So which LDCs would you consider to be in the same rank as the R84? I assume that a ribbon mic isn't a particularly cheap thing to manufacture so there should be quality condensers in the same price range, right?

I work for a microphone manufacturer... I can't [or at least won't] comment on this. Let YOUR ears be the guide

Originally Posted by Welkin

Is the 414 XLS still the legendary 414 after all the updates or is it a completely different mic?

414's ceased to be "legendary" microphones in 1978 when the last of the "EB" microphones with [the real] CK-12 capsules was produced... since then it's been one "cost of manufacture" improvement after another with [at least from what I've heard] nothing genius in terms of sonic advancement.

Would this setup be too vintage and should I pick a more modern sounding LDC?

Has anyone mentioned to you lately that this board will rot your mind if you're not careful. "To vintage"? WTF does that mean?

By "modern" sounding LDC are you talking about one of the Banjo Mart specials with enough upper midrange to sound remarkably loud when you're checking them out at the store [loudest wins in a "stand alone" shoot out]... as opposed to a microphone that has depth, detail, clarity and a personality?

Here's a novel thought... find someone who wants to work with you... have them send you some microphones to try. Use them on some sessions with your A2D and figure out what tool will best suit your sense of aesthetic and best compliment your work.

I know what tools work well for me... and they'll be different tools than what works for someone else... which will be different still from what tools will work best for you.

Talk is cheap... experience is invaluable.

Peace.

[DanDan]

The XLS bears little similarity to the older 414. This new one is better made and more reliable in terms of switches and so on, but pretty poor sound. Too much electronics, too little capsule getting through.
I have A/B all the 414's and strangely they get worse. That urban myth is unfortunately true. I have also tested the Gefell 930 in good company. It is excellent on vocals and acoustic guitar. In the right room it should be excellent on viol's.
The Haun MBHO range are remarkable. The K200 capsule with your choice of preamp, I suggest the cheaper traffo/FET one. Their higher end 'Lollipop' mic is superb. Audix seem to have rebadged both of these mics.
I have found three mics to really suit viol's Beyer M260 (very close with quiet preamp)
or more distant, the U67 ( I have a couple :-) or just as good, the DPA 4011.
DD

[Welkin]

Thanks guys. I assume the 414 is ruined then and won't get one. I used one of the new ones on a live gig and didn't like it that much then either.

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Has anyone mentioned to you lately that this board will rot your mind if you're not careful. "To vintage"? WTF does that mean?

I meant that both the R84 and 414 are coloring mics and more in the dark and retro side of things than punchy and modern. I'm not a big fan of sibilant and hyped condensers but if I want to get going with two mics then it might be better if both of them weren't dark, right? Rest assured that I'm not going to get anything based on a few comments on this or any other forum, I'm trying to narrow my choices because the local dealers can only offer the meat and potatoes kind of mics and only from a limited set of manufacturers so I have to jump through hoops to get my hands on anything special.

[DanDan]

http://www.mbho.de/pdf/mbnm608.pdf
DD

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by DanDan

http://www.mbho.de/pdf/mbnm608.pdf
DD

That looks interesting but it seems to be difficult to find. Also the price might be out of my reach at the moment but I'll keep that one in mind.

[DanDan]

I don't work for them but I do believe in supporting the worthy.
Here's the US contact.
mbhous@yahoo.com
The K200/648 or K200/603 are quite affordable and in my tests very similar to the king, the KM84 on acoustic guitar. Strangely excellent on vocals also.
DD

[Hammer Mark]

Since you have access to the BLUE mics, I think you should consider those. I have the Dragonfly and Kiwi and like them both.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by Hammer Mark

Since you have access to the BLUE mics, I think you should consider those. I have the Dragonfly and Kiwi and like them both.

Thanks. I've tried a Kiwi and used an 8-ball. Both are really nice but I haven't recorded any vocals with Blue mics and the Kiwi is out of my league for now. I've tried searching for info about the Blue mics that I could afford but so far I'm getting more confused. If I've understood correctly the cheap Bluebird is really a good mic except for the poor chinese build quality, isn't the capsule one of the interchangeable capsules from the way more expensive bottle series?

I think I'm getting somewhere with my update. I'm convinced that the AEA is about the best mic I can dream of for recording strings and vocalists that happen to be compatible with the mic. I think I'll get that and extend my budget to get another mic so that I'm not stuck with the ribbon sound.

Which of the following mics would you suggest to complement the R84 and to be used with the A2D? I'm already spending way more than I planned to so I have to get something affordable now and get more mics later.

1. Röde K2
2. Blue Bluebird
3. Blue Baby Bottle
4. Shure SM7B
5. Audio Technica AT4033
6. Audio Technica AT4040
7. If someone would convince me that R84, Bluebird and SM7 were the perfect combination I might be able to stretch that far.

[Welkin]

I'm gearing towards A2D, R84 and AT4033 for now. Or possibly Röde K2 instead of the Audio Technica. Any ideas?

[Heartfelt]

Something you may consider is a Beesneez James and pay some extra to have Ben put a jumper switch in the mic. You can get 2 tonalities and thus some versatility from a quality, handmade mic. One one side, you have the James with a slight mid-forward sound and in the other position, you have a more neutral mic with an extended top end... pretty nice. One of these and a couple of SDC's can go a long way.

[MadGuitrst]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.......

I love your new avatar HF.....

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........

[seanmccoy]

My R84 is certainly one of my favorite mics, and sounds awesome on violin, female vocals and guitar cabs. It's not "modern" sounding in that it has no presence boost, but it takes EQ really well should you need that hype. It wouldn't be my first choice for an all 'rounder (in my collection that would be one of my Gefell UMT70s's), but it may be perfect for your particular needs.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

My R84 is certainly one of my favorite mics, and sounds awesome on violin, female vocals and guitar cabs. It's not "modern" sounding in that it has no presence boost, but it takes EQ really well should you need that hype. It wouldn't be my first choice for an all 'rounder (in my collection that would be one of my Gefell UMT70s's), but it may be perfect for your particular needs.

That's the feeling I'm getting while reading all those positive comments about the R84. What preamp are you using with it? Have you run into any problems with getting enough gain when recording violin with the R84?

The Gefell UMT70 seems like a nice mic. A bit too much for me right now but something to consider in the future. Gefell seems to pop up in most of the threads in here that have any similarity to the gigs I do. M930 (or a pair) and a pair of M300s would be nice too.

[RMJAZZ]

I'm going to agree with Fletcher on this one....try a bunch of mics before buying anything. In the $1,000 range, try a KSM44, you can find them used for under $700. But if you are really set on getting one mic, try the Geffell mics that have been mentioned here..you'll be pleasantly surprised IMHO.

I use my A2D mainly for electric and acoustic guitars.....on EG I do an Audix i5 and a modded Apex 205 ribbon. The ribbon is fantastic, but has only really worked well on one vocalist...a bass singer in a quartet. For AG I do 2 KSM44's usually in Blumlein, but I try different set ups to see what works best that day!

If you main goal is to get killer vocals.....well, one mic wont be killer on everyone, even if you get up into the $3000-4000 range.

Experiment experiment experiment!

I wish you the best,
Rob

[jaffa]

The mic you choose must depend on the kind of vocal (s) you do. I used a Soundelux iFet7 through the A2D on a soulful male voice and it sounded fantastic, the same combination on a female, slightly brittle voice sounded horrible - at that point I'd reach for the R84! Some vocals might suit a less distinctive pre than the A2D - though I wouldn't want to put you off, as a combination of quality pre and A/D it's hard to beat.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by Welkin

That's the feeling I'm getting while reading all those positive comments about the R84. What preamp are you using with it? Have you run into any problems with getting enough gain when recording violin with the R84?

I've used it with a Grace 101, ISA428, Aurora GTQC, BAE 312A, and Pacifica, all of which have plenty of gain. Though it sounds good with any of these, I have to admit I have liked it best on vocals with the Focusrite. The mic has so much personality on its own that I've found the combination with the more colored pres to be a bit much at times. Keep in mind these were mostly on sweet-voiced girls, not highly aggressive stuff. I did use—and like—the GTQC with it on a recent fiddle session. Having the extra flexibility of the EQ and smooth compression worked great.

[bxt403]

I use the Mercenary Audio/Tab-modded SM-58 quite religiously with my A2D.

My other mics of choice for the A2D are the Rode NT1-A (it's modelleded after a Geffel M930 if I'm not mistaken). And a clone of the U47-fet.

I'd say get a pair of NT1-A's and a pair of Tab SM-58/57's through Mercenary and you'll have some change, but I'm sure plenty of people will say that's not high end. It definitely doesn't sound like dfegad.

[ohmoka]

Originally Posted by DanDan

I don't work for them but I do believe in supporting the worthy.
Here's the US contact.
mbhous@yahoo.com
The K200/648 or K200/603 are quite affordable and in my tests very similar to the king, the KM84 on acoustic guitar. Strangely excellent on vocals also.
DD

I got a pair of 648's and just love them!