Columbia's 30th Street Studio Revisited & Kind of Blue

[GimmeAir]

My understanding is that it was a number of 1/2" 3-track machines. Selsted told me this had been the biggest single order Ampex ever had. Their machinist in Chicago had farmed some of the capstans out in order to make the deadline but failed to double check that the dimensions were correct. By the same token the factory had never had any problems with this machine shop so they didn't bother checking it when they assembled the machines in California.

Oh, man. It must have been hard to correct all that since those machines were probably much in demand. They could use the take logs to compare relative speeds and sort out which ones were way off. They could have gone around with test tapes and frequency counters. But, business was booming for Columbia, so taking time away from sessions had to be hard. Any idea how long it took to correct Columbia's machines?

Inconsistent capstan speed, tape stretch - it's all stuff those of us who work in radio, where timing still matters a lot, don't miss.

[Bob Olhsson]

They were brand new so the previous machines were still present. He said Ampex replaced all of them and let Columbia keep one of the ones that ran at the wrong speed for transfers and mastering in the future.

A big problem would have been if it hadn't immediately been discovered and involved more than a day's work.

[GimmeAir]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

They were brand new so the previous machines were still present. He said Ampex replaced all of them and let Columbia keep one of the ones that ran at the wrong speed for transfers and mastering in the future.

A big problem would have been if it hadn't immediately been discovered and involved more than a day's work.

Oh, I get it. Thanks for clarifying.

[ajfarber]

You can see the AMPEX 1/2-inch 3-tracks in the Glenn Gould film from 1959.

[airmate]

Originally Posted by stampen

Is it possible to try and describe that quality in words?

What kind of places like that are still around? Capitol A? I know a lot of people describes the old A&R studio in NY where Phil Ramone worked as a great room. the same kind?

/A

Bill Putnams Ocean Way Studio B in Hollywood has that kind of quality. You can tell it just from talking in the room. Each noise gets supported beautifully, sounds thicker. I have been in many of the great old rooms, but this one is REALLY amazing!

[Bob Olhsson]

The Motown studio that is now a museum in Detroit is like that.

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Frank is the guy who came up, among other things, with the distinctive Columbia Records reverberation system.

I'll never forget the day one of our songwriters walked into the mastering room at Motown with a tape for me to make him a dub from. I hit "play" and there was Frank Laico's mix of Tony Bennett singing "For Once in My Life" coming out of the monitors. The audio quality was extraordinary, way better than what generally made it to vinyl on a Tony Bennett record. I only learned about Frank about ten years ago when I was introduced to him. If ever there was an icon of record mixing, this man is it.

Frank Laico is alive and well in Edmonds WA, and has been the featured speaker at a number of PNW AES meetings with Dan Mortensen and myself assisting. He is an amazing fellow with plenty of stories and much great information on how great recordings were made before we were deluged with zillions of channels, isolation for everything and compressors on every channel. Miles Davis' Some Kind of Blue was one of the very few recordings of Miles Davis that Frank did NOT record. But he can tell us about almost all the rest along with plenty of other A list musios.

bobs

[Plush]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

Gotta love those engineers that take themselves as artists! At 6'40", when they start to listen to take one, the guy tells Gould his tempos are not right!!

I wonder if Matisse's impressario told him that his colors are off?

It is absolutely the job of the tonmeister to say these kinds of things.

Don't complain if you do not recognize someone who is doing their job!
That tonmeister was one of the world's foremost experts on recording Bach.

[Bob Olhsson]

There is a DVD of an interview with Frank Laico available from the AES.



AES Historical Web Store: Oral History Project

[Sarusan]

All five of the Putnam rooms in Hollywood are like that. The first time that I walked into Western (Cello/EastWest) One someone was playing ping-pong and you could tell immediately how magical it was in there.

Originally Posted by airmate

Bill Putnams Ocean Way Studio B in Hollywood has that kind of quality. You can tell it just from talking in the room. Each noise gets supported beautifully, sounds thicker. I have been in many of the great old rooms, but this one is REALLY amazing!

[airmate]

Originally Posted by Sarusan

All five of the Putnam rooms in Hollywood are like that. The first time that I walked into Western (Cello/EastWest) One someone was playing ping-pong and you could tell immediately how magical it was in there.

I've been in all five rooms, and I found Ocean Way B the best sounding room. But that's just my personal impression.

[gainreduction]

Bump.

Anyone know if there were echo chambers at Columbia, 30th street ? Is it just the room we hear on all the Miles records from that era or was there more to it ? That ambience is just amazing.

Bob Olhsson mentions the "distinctive columbia records reverbation system" in a post, care to elaborate ?

[mljung]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Bump.

Anyone know if there were echo chambers at Columbia, 30th street ? Is it just the room we hear on all the Miles records from that era or was there more to it ? That ambience is just amazing.

Bob Olhsson mentions the "distinctive columbia records reverbation system" in a post, care to elaborate ?

...and in the Simon and Garfunkel records [e.g. Scarborough Fair].


The Ellington Jazz party was also made there, but I'm almost certain no extra ambiance was added. Another wonderful recording from Columbia, 30th street, but not often talked about - with extra percussion added to Ellingtons band. What a space!

::
Mads

[Bob Olhsson]

I understand there was a stairwell that was used to add ambiance plus Columbia owned a LOT of EMT 140s so I can't imagine there weren't also a number of them at 30th street. They also had phone lines that allowed the chamber and studio to be used for echo at their other studios when nothing was going on.

[Remoteness]

I trust the Telco lines were 15K AAA lines that were normally used for radio broadcasts back in the day.
Did they install this sort of "phone lines" in the studio?
Bob, can you confirm this assumption of mine?

[Bob Olhsson]

I don't know. CBS would obviously be using a lot of 15k phone lines although anything within the same local office could just be dialed up because there would be no filtering or multiplexing.

Before tape it was very common to do symphony recordings using a "remote box" with phone lines back to at least a couple lathes at the recording studio.

(This was both for safety and auditioning. Before the hot stylus technique for cutting lacquers became available, masters needed to be cut on wax in order to produce quiet pressings. Typically there'd be a couple of those running and another cutting an acetate so people could hear a playback. There was generally also a phone line feeding a broadcast transcription service which would record everything coming down the line for a particular time period as an additional backup.)

[Remoteness]

Awesome!

[Paul EQ]

Great article, pictures..

[gainreduction]

This months (april 2010) "classic tracks" article in sound on sound magazine is about Miles "Round Midnight" and features insightful comments by mr Laico, about his approach to recording at 30th street studio C. A good read.

Home: Sound On Sound music recording technology magazine (you need an e-subscription to read it)

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

There is a DVD of an interview with Frank Laico available from the AES.

<snip>

AES Historical Web Store: Oral History Project

The Laico interview is a classic case of "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Also an example of how corporate can be well-meaning but destructive. And now all of it is gone. <sigh>

Plush, and others, are so right when they say the we are recording the room and the sound made in it.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Bump.

Anyone know if there were echo chambers at Columbia, 30th street ? Is it just the room we hear on all the Miles records from that era or was there more to it ? That ambience is just amazing.

Bob Olhsson mentions the "distinctive columbia records reverbation system" in a post, care to elaborate ?

There were bathrooms on the lower level that were used as echo chambers. Big marble bathrooms, you dig? Anyway, Jerry Dodgion (reed player) told me he was listening to a playback in the control room when the unmistakable sound of a toilet flushing could be clearly heard. They had forgotten to lock the bathroom off and because it was a direct-to-2-track recording, the take was ruined.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

Miles Davis' Some Kind of Blue was one of the very few recordings of Miles Davis that Frank did NOT record.

Right, Fred Plaut did that one.

[Silvertone]

Now I'm reviving this old thread as I want to show everybody to see my latest and greatest purchase... which will be paired with my old Langevin 12x3 track tube console. I will be recreating the studio of yesteryear when I'm finished (ala Gold Star)... sometime around mid 2013 hopefully... so brush up on your playing skills kids and come make a record over the course of a weekend!

This particular 1957 Ampex 300-3 machine was used to cut hundred of hits by artists such as Duane Eddie, Waylon Jenning, Wayne Newton, Herman's Hermits, etc... back in the day. I am so excited to have nailed a machine in such great shape and from the original owner no less.

(btw, to answer an old question, Teo's parents club was right off of exit 18 on the Northway... as you head into downtown Glens Falls just where the road bends to the right there is an empty lot where the club once stood... wish I took a picture before they tore it down 15 years ago). My in-laws may have a picture come to think of it.

[Bob Olhsson]

Somebody, maybe it was Fred Catero, told me Fred Plaut's career began as an assistant in a studio that was still making acoustical recordings in Germany or Switzerland.

Everybody worked for Plaut. Catero spoke very highly of the man.

[Daniel Stark]

Vintage Sessions

not sure if this was posted previously on this thread but there's a lot of great info and photos.

[Remoteness]

What a great link.

Thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by Daniel Stark

Vintage Sessions

not sure if this was posted previously on this thread but there's a lot of great info and photos.

[Silvertone]

Here is another great site that shows a bunch of vintage sessions and the like...
Recording Studio Artist Sessions

Also check this one out as well... some 1950's tube consoles...
Audio Mixing Consoles circa 1959 | Preservation Sound

[thornpig]

Some fantastic links and posts on this thread, an archive of world quickly being left behind.

A few weeks back this documentary was shown on bbc4 :

part 1
1959 The Year that Changed Jazz Part 1 - YouTube

part 2
1959 The Year that Changed Jazz Part 2 - YouTube

part 3
1959 The Year that Changed Jazz Part 3 - YouTube

part 4
1959 The Year that Changed Jazz Part 4 - YouTube

A kind of blue and Time out have always been high on the list of desert island discs for me, after watching this and getting some insight of the world in which these records were created I now have the utmost respect for all involved.

I live in the mountains of north wales and there are many fine old chapels and churches built in the 1900's that are now mostly left to rot. A few have been used to create studios but all have opted for the floating room within a room, which is utter sacrilege given the acoustic qualities of these spaces. (this sometimes has to do with planning regs on listed buildings) As others have noted, nailed teak floorboards have a beautiful way of acting like guitar bodies and the thick, stone walls and high ceilings create a heady atmosphere.

There is a beautiful, carved wood chapel that i had the pleasure of recording in a few years back. It was so nice to be able to let the space, the musicians and the mics do all the hard work. I just sat back and enjoyed the sounds.

I recorded a live ten piece afrofunk band in an old magistrates court in blaenau festiniog a couple of years ago (its part of a disused police station that a friend of mine has turned into a community centre and recording/rehearsal space for kids). An awesome sounding room. Acoustically designed so all voices can be heard equally in all parts of room, with added bass traps built in along the back wall. Recorded live onto tape, hardly needed any studio time, a lovely open sound.

How did things get all so muddled with recording? People choosing any space regardless of its sound qualities then synthesizing a different room within it using foam and plastic and other stuff that we're told by expects we need to have. Jeez just spend a little time trying to at least find the right space and then use the money you would have spent on expensive "state of the art acoustic definition solutions" on getting some nice mics and amps.

We charge headlong into new technological advancements and leave past masters in our binary wake.

[Remoteness]

Nice!