Best playback medium for musical theater (suggestions please)

[nas]

I just composed music for a "live" musical theater production, however, due to budget constraints and availability of musicians the music will have to be a pre-recorded playback - probably in some sort of a stereo digital format (music only with no vocals recorded) and the actors/singers singing live over the pre-recorded music .

What would be the best medium for this application in terms of stability and also timing accuracy? The music needs to come in on cue. A regular CD? a laptop playing AIFF files off of a DAW or maybe itunes? a Hard Disk recorder/player? Something that would be very reliable and stable.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks.

[bishopthomas]

Are there sound effects that need to fire immediately after pressing play? Some CD players have a bit of delay. Most can be overcome by going into pause mode first, but that's kind of a pain. CD's are still the easiest and most effective way for me. Computers can crash. Always have a backup CD or two. Some people use iPods as well. It all depends on your specific requirements for the show.

[mixedupsteve]

I use Qlab on a Macbook. No delay at all. I do make a CD for backup though.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

I use Qlab on a Macbook. No delay at all. I do make a CD for backup though.

Like any other cueing, you must rehearse whatever system you use and get comfortable with the lag. It used to be a good 1.5 second while a turntable came up to speed... of a but quicker with the early solenoid operated R2R machines. CD was actually always really consistent... I ran (at various times) Sony, Luxman, Denon and Gemini. The Denon and Gemini were the most flexible, but I used a 1st gen Sony home CD player for 15 years.

The last play I did had six SFX cues that I ran out of iTunes from my MBPro. Rehearsal was definitely necessary, but the timing came pretty quickly. The stage manager who switched off a transmitter during a quick change caused much more consternation than the MBP's slight lag. CD is probably the most reliable, especially through DJ-grade players.

Sports arenas and radio stations use mp3 players like "360" (really, small digital audio servers) that are "punch and play" after you load the cues. They're especially useful when there are lage numbers of repetitive cues (like the applause on the Kim Kommando Show).

[matthewd]

Have a look at SFX6 which is a theatrical cueing system used in places like Glydebourne Opera House in the UK. It is particuarly useful if you are cueing multiple atmos, SFX and music tracks. It works with ASIO drivers and so the number of outputs is only limited by the hardware. You build the show like a playlist and just sit and fire off each cue. Easy - especially if somebody is calling the show on comms. But it is also flexible and can be reprogrammed on the fly if something is going wrong with the show and you can assign SFXs such as lightning to particular keys of a Querty keyboard so you can perform with it almost like a sampler. I think you can trigger midi which means certain lighting effects could be triggered by the sound - again thunder and lightning is a great example.

In London's West End however, they use a lot of Nuendo mainly because it is a cheap way of interfacing high track count via RME MADI cards into the digital desks such as the DIGICO range. If you need control over the mixes this is great but if you basically just want to balance premixed backing with live vocals, something like SFX6 is great. You might want to look at in ear monitoring rather than wedges if you can afford it so the mics are not picking up too much backing track.

Hope this helps

Matt

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by hbphotoav

Like any other cueing, you must rehearse whatever system you use and get comfortable with the lag. It used to be a good 1.5 second while a turntable came up to speed... and a bit quicker with the early solenoid operated R2R machines (loved the timed paper leader between cues!). CD was actually always really consistent... I ran (at various times) Sony, Luxman, ReVox, Denon and Gemini players. The Denon and Gemini were the most flexible, but I used a 1st gen Sony home CD player for 15 years.

The last play I did had six SFX cues that I ran out of iTunes from my MBPro. Rehearsal was definitely necessary, but the timing came pretty quickly. The stage manager who switched off a transmitter during a quick change caused much more consternation than the MBP's slight lag. CD is probably the most reliable, especially through DJ-grade players.

I agree it can be done but in live theatre I prefer to have SFX without any delay at all. Two weeks ago we had one play where there were 4 SFX fired in 2 sec. I just go ahead and put scene change music on the cue list too. Walk in and intermission music I use I tunes or CD and I do keep all SFX on a CD as well. For the OPs purpose I think CD would be fine.

[Chris Wilson]

For these types of events, I like to run two CD players, each with a copy of the same CD, into a mixer (the type that DJ's use) so in the event something goes wrong with one CD, a quick fade to the other disc can be made and the show won't be ruined. The cues get written down in all CAPS with a sharpie.

I remember seeing Trey Gunn (King Crimson) play a show in which all the signal processing was done live via laptop. It was great until his MacBook went tits up 1/3 of the way through the piece. The computer had to be restarted and the show had a unscheduled intermission.

[Barnabas]

I use iTunes on an iBook.

iTunes will let you set a volume level and EQ setting for each track and save it. Thus for music and sound effects, you can set the level during rehearsals, and you don't have to remember to adjust the sound levels during the show. This is great if a volunteer is running the sound for the actual performances.

[aussie_techie]

If you only need a single stereo track then a CD is quick and cheap. (just have multiple copies)

If you need separate tracks for music/fx you want a hardware multitrack.
Yamaha AW series were always very stable for me. An AW4416 could be picked up pretty cheap now days. just load in your wav files, line them up to your chosen time code and off you go. Having the options in time codes is another big thing with this kind of unit. The mic pres and converters might not be pristine by todays standards but they always sounded fine at the time and for a live show they certainly sound fine. Then again there is always digital i/o if you need it. even though you wouldn't notice it live i found it better to keep everything at 24bit with those things.

I have used computers for many things but i also know you need a backup because its not a case of if they go down but when. The when may not be during your show but you need a back up if thats when it does happen.

as has been said no matter what you go with you must rehearse with what ever system you intend to use so there are no surprises on the day

[tombak]

A DJ CD deck has worked the best for me. Such as a Pioneer CDJ 1000, 800, or 100.

Just make sure your edit points are clean an right up to the beginning of the track id.
Both the CDJ 1000 and 800 will auto cue the track up to the first bit of audio which is helpful.
Scrolling through the tracks is really quick as well.

For one theater piece I worked on we used a small Yamaha SU10 sampler for foley type stuff that needed precision triggering.

[nas]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, very helpful... expecially regarding some of the software that is availible for integrating audio, video, and MIDI.

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

I use Qlab on a Macbook. No delay at all. I do make a CD for backup though.

mixedupsteve,

thanks for the info on Qlab. I've been checking it out and going through some of the tutorials on their website. Have you found it to be stable? any crashes or mishaps during a show? I do like the features and integration it offers but I have to admit that given the nature of computers, I'm always a little nervous about using them for live shows... even with backups.

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by nas

Thanks for the feedback everyone, very helpful... expecially regarding some of the software that is availible for integrating audio, video, and MIDI.




mixedupsteve,

thanks for the info on Qlab. I've been checking it out and going through some of the tutorials on their website. Have you found it to be stable? any crashes or mishaps during a show? I do like the features and integration it offers but I have to admit that given the nature of computers, I'm always a little nervous about using them for live shows... even with backups.

It has been perfectly stable and no problems other than operator error (me). Why don't you download the free version and play with it. The free version really does alot and I still use it.

[7rojo7]

Studer CD players, as many as needed, they have an auto pause function which plays a track until the end and goes into pause, 2 frame delay. Used mini discs for a while.
Looking for a DAW style that can play out multiple cues with independent random start times, kind of like a sampler with a dedicated control surface and not a MIDI keyboard. Something with scene memories that can be automated but leaving manual control over every tracks volume or EQ and being able to trigger sfx cues manually.
It can get hairy punching start on a few players at once and controlling different volumes and having to start other cues and fade the one's that are playing or fading in others, slamming the reverb etc...
now I use a few CD players and a sampler with a mixing board

[fifthcircle]

Samplitude and Sequoia have a somewhat unknown mode called "O Tone" mode. This is designed especially for theater applications.

To make the explanation short, you hit space to play and it will only play the next object in line (objects being a clip of audio). You could use the object editor to create fade ins and fade outs on those objects and set an EQ or compression on them as well. Come show time, all you do is hit space

You can download the demo from Samplitude.com

--Ben

[fallforward]

I prefer having two minidisc players, instead of CD's.

Not because of sound quality but so you don't have to worry about skipping from scratched CD's.

One disc has the main music on it. The other has scene change music and foley on it.

[siriusbliss]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Samplitude and Sequoia have a somewhat unknown mode called "O Tone" mode. This is designed especially for theater applications.

To make the explanation short, you hit space to play and it will only play the next object in line (objects being a clip of audio). You could use the object editor to create fade ins and fade outs on those objects and set an EQ or compression on them as well. Come show time, all you do is hit space

You can download the demo from Samplitude.com

--Ben

Also, you can ctrl+play any object 'solo' in any order, so it's possible to setup non-linear theater type setups as well.

Greg