Insurance

[Spindrift]

Hi All,

How do you all go about insuring your equipment in the USA, both at home and on location? My homeowners won't cover it because it's owned by an LLC.

Is there anyone who specializes in this sort of thing?

Thanks,
Spindrift

[BrianHanke]

I use MusicPro - they're very affordable and offer exactly what you're looking for!

[sonare]

I am surprised your insurance company used that as an excuse-- usally it is because it is used for professional purposes.

My question to you is why you want it? Do you have a history of gear being stolen or damaged on location? The cost of any insurance covering tens of thousands of dollars of anything that is "out in the world" rather than a fixed (and presumable safe) location is really high. You'd be better off simply putting aside the several grand a year to pay for damaged or missing gear rather than hassling with an insurance company. The human eye (yours) is the security device.

If you are interesting in liability protection that is a different story-- but care and thinking on setups go a LONG way towards preventing a liability situation from arising.

This is something not far from the thinking of most location guys, so please keep us posted on what you find and decide.

Steve Remote-- you are in a different situation but your perspective would be good to hear!

Rich

[sonare]

Originally Posted by BrianHanke

I use MusicPro - they're very affordable and offer exactly what you're looking for!

Brian,

Could you furnish some details? The cost amount of the gear covered-- the deductable-- any exclusions. And of course, the premium.

Rich

[BrianHanke]

Originally Posted by sonare

Brian,

Could you furnish some details? The cost amount of the gear covered-- the deductable-- any exclusions. And of course, the premium.

Rich

Here's the page detailing the policy I have: https://www.musicproinsurance.com/Classical.aspx . My annual premium is $166.

[Spindrift]

Hi Guys,

I found this thread too which may be helpful.

Insurance


Why insure it? Well, if you have a sizeable investment in equipment that is owned by a legal entity (LLC) and not personally, it would be a big bummer if your house burned down or was broken into. I asked my insurance agent about this (already knew the answer) and it was a big NO. I don't own the equipment. My LLC does. Now, I own the LLC but still, legally, I would not be covered under my homeowner's policy.

Thanks for the tips, I think with the info here and in the thready I posted above, I can get some reasonable coverage.

later!

[sonare]

The link is informative and intriguing but does not tell us how much gear you have covered for your $166/yr nor if there are any exclusions.

My past experience with getting coverage info from insurance companies makes me concerned that there is a "gotcha" somewhere in your policy for a mere $166. Some more info would be helpful for all of us who are curious.

Also-- there is no mention of liability coverage. Do you have any protection if an ORTF array falls on the head of an audience member who decided to shake and mic stand and see what happened?

Rich

[BrianHanke]

Originally Posted by sonare

The link is informative and intriguing but does not tell us how much gear you have covered for your $166/yr nor if there are any exclusions.

My past experience with getting coverage info from insurance companies makes me concerned that there is a "gotcha" somewhere in your policy for a mere $166. Some more info would be helpful for all of us who are curious.

Also-- there is no mention of liability coverage. Do you have any protection if an ORTF array falls on the head of an audience member who decided to shake and mic stand and see what happened?

Rich

I wouldn't purchase a policy that included any "gotchas." As a matter of personal privacy I don't want to post publicly what I have covered or its value. You can use their Quick Quote feature to get an idea of the premium that might apply in your situation. I don't have their liability coverage, although they do offer it.

[sonare]

My "quickquote" was between $300 and ?? depending on whether mics were listed at replacement value or what I paid. To keep from wasting time-- how do they have you list mics? What you paid, or what it would cost to replace? If anything is over a year old there will be a discrepancy.

How do they determine the loss? Police report? And since traditional insurance protects you against a loss-- how would they handle it if an audience member or musician knocks over a mic stand? Or if your assistant drops something and it doesn't work afterwards?

This initially looks reasonable, but insurance companies keep rates down by paying out as little as possible-- a great idea as long as it isn't you that must send a mic back to the factory and then learn that the capsule replacement is not fully covered because it is a 10-year-old item.

Rich

[BrianHanke]

In my account's online form they ask for the replacement value of any equipment.

As far as I know accidental damage is covered. They specifically state that they don't cover normal wear and tear and any maliciously-caused damage.

I agree that buying insurance can be tricky and that some companies try to avoid making payouts if they can help it. Still, I don't see any reason to believe that would be the case with MusicPro. I've found their customer service to be very responsive. Also, they're partnered with ASCAP, which is how I found out about them initially.

[aracu]

I've been speaking with some insurance companies lately. One thing
that put me off about Music Pro is that you don't deal with the insurance
companies directly. Music Pro itself is not an insurance company but
someone who is in between you and the actual insurance companies,
which are Fireman's Fund and Hanover. But it's relatively cheap, $330 for
30k worth of gear if you agree to deduct $100 from a claim if it arises.
Another more solid sounding company is Clarion which costs a minimum
of $500 for home studios. I haven't used any of these.

[garysjo]

Having a middle man, or agent, in the case of MusicPro is a good thing. I do not know them beyond hearing them mentioned here, by the way. If you are having trouble with a claim or otherwise you should have an advocate in a good agent vs. dealing directly with the insurance company. While an agent is contracted with several insurance companies, many are small in scale relative to the insurance company. Their customer relationships are critical to them staying in business. No one at the insurance company is concerned with your situation if it gets ugly.

Regarding the homeowners policy most only provide $2500 coverage for property used in a business while at your house. Take it out of your house and that will drop to $250. For location work you really need a commercial policy. A good one will provide coverage for dropping, accidental damage, etc. beyond theft.

[BrianHanke]

Originally Posted by garysjo

Having a middle man, or agent, in the case of MusicPro is a good thing. I do not know them beyond hearing them mentioned here, by the way. If you are having trouble with a claim or otherwise you should have an advocate in a good agent vs. dealing directly with the insurance company. While an agent is contracted with several insurance companies, many are small in scale relative to the insurance company. Their customer relationships are critical to them staying in business. No one at the insurance company is concerned with your situation if it gets ugly.

Regarding the homeowners policy most only provide $2500 coverage for property used in a business while at your house. Take it out of your house and that will drop to $250. For location work you really need a commercial policy. A good one will provide coverage for dropping, accidental damage, etc. beyond theft.

Good point about the agent thing - I hadn't thought of it that way!

When I first was looking for insurance I inquired about a homeowner's policy from a major insurance company. Their response was that if it wasn't attached to the walls it wouldn't be covered. Sadly, none of my music stuff is! On top of that it was crazy expensive for even basic coverage: something like $500 per month, if I remember correctly.

[yrplace]

Originally Posted by Spindrift

Hi All,

How do you all go about insuring your equipment in the USA, both at home and on location? My homeowners won't cover it because it's owned by an LLC.

Is there anyone who specializes in this sort of thing?

Thanks,
Spindrift

Call the agent below. The best and most affordable insurance I have ever had. They insure the big mobile outfits including Music Mix Mobile.....Mark

Joe Montarello
The Recording Studio Insurance Program
Capital Bauer Agency
500 New Karner Road
PO Box 15094
Albany, NY 12212-5095

[fifthcircle]

Mark beat me to it... Nothing but highest recommendations for Joe Montarello. The insurance policy is made for recording engineers by somebody who understands the industry. All his policies also come with Liability- a rather important feature when you consider the things that can go wrong on location.

My insurance policy with him even covered a hard drive that died and required a very expensive data restoration service. This is in addition to the things that you would expect to be covered.

Oh. I'll also add that Music Pro turned me down. Clarion was not any cheaper. And both require me to keep full rosters of gear to be insured. With the amount of stuff I buy and sell, this was going to be a major pain.

--Ben

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by sonare

Brian,

Could you furnish some details? The cost amount of the gear covered-- the deductable-- any exclusions. And of course, the premium.

Rich

I've got a lot of gear besides my location recording rig... PA for 200-1,500; screens, projection, multiple controlled cameras, cables, support; a couple of cases of photo gear for that side of my business; and computers (2 desktop and two laptop) to make it all work. I also run a 24' straight truck for "large" AV gigs; have a pickup and trailer for the numerous small PA/AV gigs; and a freestanding "garage" to house most of it and keep me and most of my stuff out of Mrs. Butler's way. Since it travels, in various iterations, interstate at least once a month, and since I regularly use freelance crew, professional insurance covering liability, failure to perform and loss or damage to the kit is (and has been) a necessity for years.

When I went freelance in the early '80s, I asked a couple of established Nashville photographers about insurance, and both steered me to the same agent. He "got it" so far as what we do and what we need covered. Been there ever since. Except for the vehicle insurance, my cost is about $2,400 a year to insure to replacement value over $250,000 in gear and provide $5 million in liability protection. Not a major PA or video production studio, to be sure, but it has served me well. The gear package is an "all risk" or "floater" policy that covers the kit anywhere in the world from all loss. It has a $500 deductible, so it functions as catastrophic loss protection more than a sniffle-fixer.

I'm careful with my gear (three or four losses over the past 20+ years) and with my setups and crews (no liability claims at all). But when I'm flying projectors or screens, wiring my power distro into a hotel panel, or getting my crew to dump the truck in a hurry because we got a late load-in slot... the protection aspect alone allows me better sleep than if I was self-insuring.

Rich has some nice gear... but it fills a mid-size station wagon and is all easily man-transportable. If you're there (and don't mind self-insuring against some fumblefoot knocking an array over and traumatizing the soloist)... more power to you. A 40-pound projector 20 feet over the audience is a different (and a bit riskier) kettle of fish. Not to mention the occasional 18' jib or miles of cable laid throughout a hotel ballroom.

YM, of course, MV. Email me if you'd like the name and contact info for my guy.

[Indrestudios]

Another thumbs up for Joe Montarello at Capital Bauer. He's insured my remote recording company for the past three years. Our policy bundles General Liability, Auto & Equipment coverage. Very nice guy.

-Michael

[yrplace]

Originally Posted by Indrestudios

Another thumbs up for Joe Montarello at Capital Bauer. He's insured my remote recording company for the past three years. Our policy bundles General Liability, Auto & Equipment coverage. Very nice guy.

-Michael

None better that I know of.........

[Remoteness]

I’m coming into to this thread a bit late, but here’s my two cents on the matter.

Joe Montarello from Capital Bauer has a recording studio package that’s (IMO) the best in the industry. Our commercial insurance policy is with Peerless Insurance Company. We’ve been doing business with them for over eight years to date. I like the personal care and treatment Joe gives to us. This is how he operates with all this clients. IMO, this is why I believe he’s the best.

Rich Mays made a good point. The cost of any insurance covering tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of dollars is seriously high. Look at what you’re policy is going to cost each year and divide that by X amount of gear that could let lost, stolen or damaged. Is it worth the bread spent each year?

How many U47s (insert your gear here) do you lose each year? Only you will know for sure. You may be better off putting aside several grand a year to pay for damaged or missing gear, but it’s not just about the equipment; what about liability? That is a very important part of running a professional location recording operation. Some clients and/or venues will not allow you to work if you don’t have the proper insurance rider.

[Spindrift]

FYI, I tried Joe first but he doesn't cover in Oregon. Not a big enuf market I guess. I went with MusicPro and they seem to be OK. No claims yet or foreseen obviously!

Spindrift

[NorseHorse]

Hello Remotesters,

I'd love to hear more recommendations for insurance.

I've been turned down by my local Erie rep because I do remote work. And I've been turned down by Joe Montarello because I currently live/rent in two locations. He seemed a little thrown off by the fact that I didn't run a commercial space.

How does one get insurance around here?

Cheers.

PS. Harry, PM sent.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

Hello Remotesters,

I'd love to hear more recommendations for insurance.

I've been turned down by my local Erie rep because I do remote work. And I've been turned down by Joe Montarello because I currently live/rent in two locations. He seemed a little thrown off by the fact that I didn't run a commercial space.

How does one get insurance around here?

Cheers.

PS. Harry, PM sent.

Thanks, Norse. Ditto my reply.

For the list, what I carry (having no "commercial" space... I work out of a 32x32' "garage" behind my house since 1995) is general commercial liability insurance; I also insure one commercial vehicle (a 24' truck); and I have a commercial "all risk" or "floater" policy on a carefully annotated (brand, model, serial number, new cost, replacement cost, quantity) list of "scheduled" professional gear. I also have an agent who "gets it" regarding my being a free-lance (read: "no job") professional services provider. For 25 years.

It is NOT cheap. It IS a PITA to keep up with the gear in active service (although the "active" list provides a very good basis for the local "personal property used in business" tax people... two birds, one list, and all)... and it does relieve me of worrying about the gear that lives in the back of the truck (main "large" PA and lighting); the trailer (small-form PA) and storage building (projection and screens, power distro, etc.). I'll emphasize... it's ALL RISK (covers any damage, including brain-fart drops) and the coverage "floats" to whatever location (including Europe, where a Nikon D200 and a couple of lenses were stolen last summer) at which I happen to be working.

Your renter's insurance or homeowner's will not suffice. Better to bank $10K and self-insure incidental loss than to rely on those policies to protect your professional gear. And don't forget liability. Commercial liability. A couple of million buck-O's worth, at a minimum. A mic stand tipping over on a priceless cello or fiddle could very much ruin your entire decade.

YMMV.

HB

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

And I've been turned down by Joe Montarello because I currently live/rent in two locations. He seemed a little thrown off by the fact that I didn't run a commercial space.

That's too bad to hear, as that's exactly my situation right now. I'm not quite to insurance yet, but I'm about to make a 2000 mile round trip with my box truck just to get it registered/inspected. Ah, the hardships of a long commute... Good luck, Norse.

[NorseHorse]

To follow up with this -- I now insure my gear and two locations through the Hoffberger Insurance Group: http://www.hoffberger.com/

Unlike the folks I mentioned previously, Peter Hoffberger understood what I needed as a remote engineer and was able to modify their "photographer's" policy to suite my needs. I'm covered everywhere.

You travel with expensive equipment to work on location? No problem...

Luckily, I haven't had to submit any claims, but it's nice to know it's there. I also receive liability coverage as standard with the policy.

Cheers.

[GZsound]

I spoke with a couple of the larger sound companies in my area and they told me they are both self insured.

After 35 years of running sound, I really haven't had a loss of equipment because of theft or accident.

I ended up just getting a million dollar blanket liability policy which costs something like $30 a year and covers any possible liability I may incur because of equipment or lights falling on someone, etc.

[Boschen]

In my area, no one will even hire you if you don't have a 1$million dollar liability policy, at the very least. In my mind this is the break point that tells you you're working with someone who is reasonably serious about their business. No insurance, no hire. When I issue a cert to a facility my company is working in, it covers liability, workman's comp, and unemployment insurance.

My gear is insured under a separate policy provided by my broker, who manages all the policies, including vehicle and home owner's. The grouped policies give me a decent discount, and my broker has been a valuable asset in doing business.