Live Handheld - PR35 vs Rode S1

tjalla · 2nd July 2009

Hi guys,

A lurker popping my head up to get an opinion on a purchase. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Rode S1 - they're relatively good value here down under compared to US/Euro brands, but I used a Heil PR35 for a while that I really liked, but had to return. I know these come from different ends of the spectrum, design wise, but if anyone could recommend one over the other? My application and requirements:

- Live solo vocals + acoustic guitar. My voice leans towards high baritone/low tenor.
- Blues, folk, soul (James Taylor, Keb Mo, Marvin Gaye etc)
- Occasional 3/4pc electric blues gigs with cranked amps/moderate drums, but not rock gig levels.
- Needs to be feedback resistant/tight pickup due to small stages, in less than ideal rooms and PA positioning. Working muso doing the bread and butter gigs here...
- Running a Mackie Onyx 1220 into 2xRCF522s FOH. Often no foldback, and I need to angle the FOH inwards slightly hence needing something that's not going to bleed too much.
- Occasional home recording, but my room is not treated.
- I own a Beta58 (somewhat metallic in the mids), Beyer M88 (too dark for my voice), and Sennheiser MD441-II (almost the perfect mic for me but I hate taking it on these kinda gigs).
- Have used an SM87 (I quite like) and a Beta87A (a bit artificial to my ear)

Anyone know if a Rode S1 will be noticeably better than the alternatives, esp for live work? Can't say I wanna go back to 58s. Thanks in advance!

Trev

rty5150 · 2nd July 2009

can you afford a neumann kms105? seriously...these go used for around $450.
i have shot out the kms105 with an s1 and beta 58(amongst others). the clearest loser of these 3 was the beta 58(bottom 2 out of 7. sm58 was absolute bottom, but close was the beta). the s1 was good, but very sibilant, nice low end with controlled proximity effect. the neumann just slayed them all: sennheiser e825, e865, rode S1, akg C5, beta 58, and sm58.
the S1 is a very good mic, but what are you looking out of your voice? from the way you describe it, it is a lot like mine. the mics i like on my voice are the neumann first and the e865 second. i settle with less setup hassles with the e835. all sound nice and pretty big, but the e835 has a natural low end roll off, it is almost immune to plosives and proximity effect. almost like a natural compression.
if you are a serious singer the neumann is a bit on the expensive side, but well worth the cost.

have not used the heil, but have thought about trying out the pr35 or pr22(or whatever the handhelds are

).

tjalla · 3rd July 2009

I've read alot of reviews on the KMS105, and the feeling I get is that they are an 'ideal case scenario' mic ie with good monitoring, or in-ears. I don't have that luxury on most of my gigs.

Plus it is beyond my price range, and I do want something I'm not too precious about to take to pubs/clubs, otherwise I'd use my 441 all the time.

As I mentioned, I have used and very much liked the Heil PR35.

I'm torn between a very good dynamic, that approaches a condenser sound vs a handheld condenser that hopefully has benefits of studio condensers.

You're also not the first to mention the S1 top end - another review stated that it had a lift around 6khz. I'll look into the Sennheisser 865/965 too.

Any other S1 thoughts?

rty5150 · 3rd July 2009

well, you may as well scratch the 965 off the list, it is the same price as the neumann.
can you bring your mics with you to a store and just shootout the mics in a shop?

tjalla · 3rd July 2009

I'll be doing that anyway, but don't have a Heil with me (they aren't stocked here in Perth).

But thanks for the feedback, will be looking out for that sibilance on the S1, and if its a problem for me.

Cheers,
Trevor

jasonraboin · 3rd July 2009

I am biased towards the Heil, and have not tried the Rode, but I can tell you that the Heil will do what you want it to. The Neumann will not work well in situations where you have to angle the FOH speakers in to hear them. The PR35 should be able to handle that. As for shooting out the mics in a shop, I would recommend doing that only if you can put them in real world situations. I would nor recommend choosing a live mic based on how it sounds in headphones.

tjalla · 5th July 2009

So I took home an S1 from store yesterday, on 48hr demo and tried it out today...

That top end sizzle is indeed too much for me - EQ from the onyx desk helped some but I do prefer the PR35 I tried, and definitely the MD441. I might compare it instore to an SM87A (not beta), but I'm leaning towards getting another PR35... or maybe an MD431?

The quest continues....

2nd July 2009	#1
tjalla Gear interested Joined: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 9 Thread Starter	Live Handheld - PR35 vs Rode S1 Hi guys, A lurker popping my head up to get an opinion on a purchase. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Rode S1 - they're relatively good value here down under compared to US/Euro brands, but I used a Heil PR35 for a while that I really liked, but had to return. I know these come from different ends of the spectrum, design wise, but if anyone could recommend one over the other? My application and requirements: - Live solo vocals + acoustic guitar. My voice leans towards high baritone/low tenor. - Blues, folk, soul (James Taylor, Keb Mo, Marvin Gaye etc) - Occasional 3/4pc electric blues gigs with cranked amps/moderate drums, but not rock gig levels. - Needs to be feedback resistant/tight pickup due to small stages, in less than ideal rooms and PA positioning. Working muso doing the bread and butter gigs here... - Running a Mackie Onyx 1220 into 2xRCF522s FOH. Often no foldback, and I need to angle the FOH inwards slightly hence needing something that's not going to bleed too much. - Occasional home recording, but my room is not treated. - I own a Beta58 (somewhat metallic in the mids), Beyer M88 (too dark for my voice), and Sennheiser MD441-II (almost the perfect mic for me but I hate taking it on these kinda gigs). - Have used an SM87 (I quite like) and a Beta87A (a bit artificial to my ear) Anyone know if a Rode S1 will be noticeably better than the alternatives, esp for live work? Can't say I wanna go back to 58s. Thanks in advance! Trev

2nd July 2009	#2
rty5150 Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2009 Location: LR,AR Posts: 2,808	can you afford a neumann kms105? seriously...these go used for around $450. i have shot out the kms105 with an s1 and beta 58(amongst others). the clearest loser of these 3 was the beta 58(bottom 2 out of 7. sm58 was absolute bottom, but close was the beta). the s1 was good, but very sibilant, nice low end with controlled proximity effect. the neumann just slayed them all: sennheiser e825, e865, rode S1, akg C5, beta 58, and sm58. the S1 is a very good mic, but what are you looking out of your voice? from the way you describe it, it is a lot like mine. the mics i like on my voice are the neumann first and the e865 second. i settle with less setup hassles with the e835. all sound nice and pretty big, but the e835 has a natural low end roll off, it is almost immune to plosives and proximity effect. almost like a natural compression. if you are a serious singer the neumann is a bit on the expensive side, but well worth the cost. have not used the heil, but have thought about trying out the pr35 or pr22(or whatever the handhelds are). __________________ rich

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3rd July 2009	#3
tjalla Gear interested Joined: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 9 Thread Starter	I've read alot of reviews on the KMS105, and the feeling I get is that they are an 'ideal case scenario' mic ie with good monitoring, or in-ears. I don't have that luxury on most of my gigs. Plus it is beyond my price range, and I do want something I'm not too precious about to take to pubs/clubs, otherwise I'd use my 441 all the time. As I mentioned, I have used and very much liked the Heil PR35. I'm torn between a very good dynamic, that approaches a condenser sound vs a handheld condenser that hopefully has benefits of studio condensers. You're also not the first to mention the S1 top end - another review stated that it had a lift around 6khz. I'll look into the Sennheisser 865/965 too. Any other S1 thoughts?

3rd July 2009	#6
jasonraboin Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2006 Location: Northampton, MA Posts: 212	I am biased towards the Heil, and have not tried the Rode, but I can tell you that the Heil will do what you want it to. The Neumann will not work well in situations where you have to angle the FOH speakers in to hear them. The PR35 should be able to handle that. As for shooting out the mics in a shop, I would recommend doing that only if you can put them in real world situations. I would nor recommend choosing a live mic based on how it sounds in headphones.

5th July 2009	#7
tjalla Gear interested Joined: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 9 Thread Starter	So I took home an S1 from store yesterday, on 48hr demo and tried it out today... That top end sizzle is indeed too much for me - EQ from the onyx desk helped some but I do prefer the PR35 I tried, and definitely the MD441. I might compare it instore to an SM87A (not beta), but I'm leaning towards getting another PR35... or maybe an MD431? The quest continues....