How to get 'good bleed'

[will84]

I've seen references to 'good bleed' and bleed that just muddies up mixes when recording multiple instruments live in a single space. The room seems as important or more than usual, and I understand that omnidirectional microphones provide a flatter frequency representation of off-mic sources.

Does anyone have any further insights on the above, or any other tips or tricks for achieving a "live in the studio" sound with The Good Bleed?

[Don S]

Although most of my experience is with classical and small jazz ensembles, I can offer some thoughts. First off, panning is extremely important. Bleed becomes a problem in a mix when sound is altered too differently in the stereo image.
Example: Piano is center and the kit is off to the left. There will be kit in the piano. If you try flipping the stereo pair on the piano, you'll have kit on both sides of the piano. The same goes for overheads, vibes, or wherever you use stereo pairs. The worst I had to deal with was vibes in front of jazz group on a really small stage. Everything was in the vibe mics! So, the pair over the vibes became the main stereo pair for the recording. The rest of the mics, I used as accent mics until the group sounded balanced and standing in front of me.

[Don S]

One more good trick is to EQ the channels. Example, roll off a piano (gently) to minimize kick and bass bleed. Sometimes the opposite will work. I had omnis in a piano next to the kit and got a beautiful low end for the kit from the low piano mic.

[joelpatterson]

"Good" bleed is one thing, but the "best" bleed invariably comes from mics that were just randomly placed anywhere, without aforethought.

[opentune]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

"Good" bleed is one thing, but the "best" bleed invariably comes from mics that were just randomly placed anywhere, without aforethought.

Yep.

[Fuzzy Logic]

i believe you have to start with proper positioning of the instruments and backline. mic and speaker placement is the next important step to achieve the best results.

[glissando]

I'm not sure I've ever encountered "good bleed" in a live situation other than occasionally cymbals sound OK in the Tom mics...not usually though

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by will84

and I understand that omnidirectional microphones provide a flatter frequency representation of off-mic sources.

Not really. Actually closer to the opposite. What you say could be true for a very small omni though but not for bigger capsules. Often mics with some directionality has more even off axis pick up. One of the best judging from specs would be MKH30.



/Peter

[springer]

IMHO the best bleed is one that is much lower in volume than the source that you are "trying" to mic up. In other words, a little bit of cymbal in my piano makes for nice stereo. A lot makes it sound like I have tooo many drum mics.
Distance and the use of fig8 (ribbons) and dynamic mics has helped. But little can be done when you have a real loud drummer.

[Remoteness]

Good bleed or the best bleed is the kind that saves your arse...
How leakage saved my arse...

[Ben B]

Be aware of the off-axis frequency response characteristics of your mics. I've encountered many microphones that have been pleasing to my ears for on axis pickup, yet the off-axis leakage sounds terrible. It adds up in a multiple microphone setup.

Also, the sound of the room is massively important. The off-axis pickup of your directional mics are "hearing" that, for better or for worse.

-Ben B

[Fuzzy Logic]

Originally Posted by glissando

I'm not sure I've ever encountered "good bleed" in a live situation other than occasionally cymbals sound OK in the Tom mics...not usually though

for me its the tonality and balance of bleed to direct signal that i call good bleed.