Using a DAW for FOH?

[Enginearing]

here you go... personally haven't had a drive yet, but it certainly looks the goods. layout and workflow would be akin to the profile.


VENUE SC48


add an imac or macpro depending on budget and be done with it.


with the need for redundancy in recording live performances, i'd personally steer away from trusting your computer to too many tasks. running your FOH off the same machine is like stepping away from complete redundancy instead of toward a solid setup.

[fifthcircle]

While I haven't worked on the Profile, the Venue kind of sucked ergonomically. To many buttons and knobs that looked the same and too many multifunction buttons that were difficult to see what the given function was. Add that to bugs and the work experience was not very pleasant.

I hope that Digi addressed these with the SC48 because it certainly seems to be a cool enough idea for a lower end digital desk.

--Ben

[Fuzzy Logic]

the sc48 does look like a better approach, but is it as glitchy as the other venue desks?

[PDC]

Originally Posted by opentune

Hmm.... let´s see... you´d need to connect your DA converter outputs to
several power amps (monitors and FOH) with their volume turned up max.

No, i wouldn´t do that. Just imagine what would happen to your audience´s
ears and to your system if for some reason your computer decides to output
a very, very strange sounding signal at 0dBfs on all channels....

This is not true. First of all, no amplifier has a volume control. Those are sensitivity controls. The gain is set in a power amp. Second, all digital consoles are, are computers running an OS with a control surface and they do not do it. If you have a computer based solution, there is no reason why it should either.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Logic

the sc48 does look like a better approach, but is it as glitchy as the other venue desks?

What is glitchy about the other Venue systems?

[PDC]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

While I haven't worked on the Profile, the Venue kind of sucked ergonomically. To many buttons and knobs that looked the same and too many multifunction buttons that were difficult to see what the given function was. Add that to bugs and the work experience was not very pleasant.

I hope that Digi addressed these with the SC48 because it certainly seems to be a cool enough idea for a lower end digital desk.

--Ben

To each his own. The biggest mixers in the industry drove the design and they do not complain about it. I think it makes sense too.

[fifthcircle]

Don't care who drove the design... The board has some pretty serious flaws in it. I ended up with a bass panned hard right because I grabbed the pan knob which is right near the low EQ and looks EXACTLY THE SAME. There isn't even coloring on the surface of the console to make it obvious. In a fast-moving show, it needs to be easier to see the knob you are trying to grab.

My other complaint with the Venue is wasted space on the surface. When you have a sidecar to the left (as most of them I have seen have for 16 faders), it is a full arm's reach to hit a VCA and a fader at the same time. If you have more than one fader, then no- the selected channel does you no good.

That aside, though, the problems with bugs are what really killed me- especially with the use of pads. I had roughly 40 channels of pres on the front end of the console and pads were a necessity. To have them not recall properly or not engage when I'd try to use them KILLED me. Why bother setting up a gain structure if it doesn't recall. Never mind the sound of the pres- not very good. I've heard worse in a live board, but for all the positive reviews I'd heard, I had expected much more. Might as well use a Digi003 for pres with that board. You certainly won't take a sonic hit.

Oh and the inability to see if you are truly locked to an external clock... Don't get me started...

--Ben

[teamsterjim]

Try a Scope Professional DSP card with one of their many mixers.
Some are for IEM/Monitoring, recording , FOH + monitoring, just about any venue you can think of.
The card comes with all of the I/O's and effects/mixers you will need.
Zero latency, external hardware effects can be routed into any project, and many templates for hardware surface controllers like the BCR series from Behringer or also Mackie control.
This system has been in use for years and is proven and mature.
The power all resides in your DSP chips, so youi couls actually run this w/ an ancient BX chipset/Pentium II Coppermine CPU.
Also worth mentionong, I use a lo-fi effect at certain points during our gig. It's a high quality VST from Sonalksiss, vocals can go from hi-fi to lo-fi glitch free and sound mastered during a live gig.
So any hardware you have can be routed into a project, and VST effects are used easily as well.
I used a pair of FMR 8380 mic pres because live gigs don't really benefit from the quality of a top shelf mic pre, unless you really need the highest quality possible for recording. There are many available, and even some built in pre's of certain hardware mixers like the Crest Audio XRM series are
excellent.
But for real time live gigs,........these Dogs Will Hunt.

[imajon]

I am responding to this old post if any new lookers here like me. I did this with an old Paris Pro rig and it worked great. 16 channels I/O with dedicated effects/ 4 band Par EQ on all channels. Paris processing is done on its own cards so virtually latency 0 (1-2 ms)

[philper]

There was a thread not long ago started by a musician that was using a laptop-based daw and a rack of interfaces to mix is band. Sorry I can't recall the name, but worth a search--they seemed to have this very together....

phil p

[SixAndChange]

I am successfully using two MH2882's for up to 24 tracks (thus far) running on a 2010 Mac Mini Server controlled through an Ipad using a remote connection. I run 5 monitor mixes which I set up on the stage, at each mix using MIO on the Ipad. Works great, sounds clean, really fun and no one can find me to tell me the guitars need turned up.

[Remoteness]

Can you show us picture of that set-up?
I'd love to see it to believe it;-)

Originally Posted by SixAndChange

I am successfully using two MH2882's for up to 24 tracks (thus far) running on a 2010 Mac Mini Server controlled through an Ipad using a remote connection. I run 5 monitor mixes which I set up on the stage, at each mix using MIO on the Ipad. Works great, sounds clean, really fun and no one can find me to tell me the guitars need turned up.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by SixAndChange

I am successfully using two MH2882's for up to 24 tracks (thus far) running on a 2010 Mac Mini Server controlled through an Ipad using a remote connection. I run 5 monitor mixes which I set up on the stage, at each mix using MIO on the Ipad. Works great, sounds clean, really fun and no one can find me to tell me the guitars need turned up.

I am considering doing something similar, but using an iMac instead of an iPad since:
1. I have neither the iPad, nor
2. the balls to try it with an iPad.

I dig the wireless iPad control though.

How are you getting 24 tracks from your two 2882s? Are you running another 8 channel preamp/converter box into one of the MH boxes?

Also, is it clunky trying to manipulate the MIO Console with your fingers? Doing it with a mouse is already clunky enough for me...

- Jim

[Adlen]

I haven't sifted through all the replies but what I was originally going to say has been covered pretty well...

Originally Posted by shaneoconnor

just make sure it is a really stable DAW.

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

latency with plugs?

Originally Posted by jude

the lack of control you have on a typical DAW vs a console!

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

Yep,
and a digital board has all the advantages of a DAW without the drawbacks.

Digital desks have the disadvantage of being less serviceable, downtime when in for repair and personally I hate digital preamps (if the digital board you use uses them).

If it's for a church maybe a Yamaha LS9 would be a good idea. We use one at church and it suits us great, we have scenes saved for each of the worship bands so come the service the EQs and gain are almost perfect and the faders are in the right place. We just sort out monitors (which I actually prefer on the LS9 than on an analog board, odd for me, I'm not a fan of digital) and a few minor fixes and you're good to go. You can teach people to do church sound pretty quickly when you have one of these installed and there isn't a great deal of thinking involved when it comes to EQs and stuff.

[SixAndChange]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I am considering doing something similar, but using an iMac instead of an iPad since:
1. I have neither the iPad, nor
2. the balls to try it with an iPad.

Imac would be fun too.

How are you getting 24 tracks from your two 2882s? Are you running another 8 channel preamp/converter box into one of the MH boxes?

I upgraded from a RME Hammerfall system I was using, but kept the Octopre's for 8 channels and the ADAT ins/outs.

Also, is it clunky trying to manipulate the MIO Console with your fingers? Doing it with a mouse is already clunky enough for me...

A graphic designer friend of mine helped me figure it all out. He uses Mac stuff with a a 21" Wacom screen and pen to draw on the touch screen. For graphic design the pen is incredible for touch sensitivity and fine control. Works just as well for the Ipad as far as control goes(though not as elaborate as a Wacom). I couldnt do it without the pen, I have huge butchers hands. Terrible at soldering, touch screens and classical guitar.

I'll try and take some pics next gig. BTW, I am not using this system for crucial applications. And though Ive not had failure (Logic aside), when I need security I take out the Midas and all its copper friends.

[eveken]

SAC is great for live!!

YouTube - SAC Making Music With Michel Legrand

YouTube - SAC Live At Harrah's Hotel In Las Vegas

YouTube - Tesla and SAC.MOV

[jackeatley]

Originally Posted by SixAndChange

I am successfully using two MH2882's for up to 24 tracks (thus far) running on a 2010 Mac Mini Server controlled through an Ipad using a remote connection. I run 5 monitor mixes which I set up on the stage, at each mix using MIO on the Ipad. Works great, sounds clean, really fun and no one can find me to tell me the guitars need turned up.

i'm using a similar system for smaller gigs, a 2010 macbook pro, with a old saffire pro 26 and some ada8000's hanging of it, getting 16-24 i/o with the buffer set down at 64, nobody notices latency or anything else different from the allen and heath.

control surfaces are BCF200s

also have a little HP netbook setup to control it using a VNC server

magic thumbsup

ps: planning a video demo of said console soon, so i'll post that also.

[saciestudio]

Been using Sonar in XP with Profire 2626 (48kHz / 64 sample buffer), "old" Q9450 for rehearsal, in small room with EQ, Comp, Amplitube, ear sends, master and speaker EQ... No problem with latency or glitches for years, other than sometimes when starting/stopping recording it would silence for a half second. Records/monitors for hours even using Chrome, Firefox, etc at the same time. Been using for years now, also for monitoring while recording on other machine, it´s better than the cheapest digital boards, sometimes I use it with a BCF2000 attached.