mobile recording laptop

[xtranscendedx]

I plan on recording 16 ch at once via firewire into a laptop,and mix and edit on another pc just plan on tracking on the laptop just tracking.What are the minium specs i need.oh and i wanna use amd. thumbsup

[theblue1]

You'll want a 7200 RPM hard drive. It can be hard to get the HD specs from some manufacturers. I bought my Dell Pentium M (Centrino) laptop refurbished from their online 'outlet' where you can sort on different features. I sorted on HD size (all available 7200 2.5" drives are 60 GB at this time [unless that's changed very recently] and of Hitachi manufacture). And, at that time, the drive sizes were sub-sorted on speed, I believe. So I could take a look at all the 7200 rpm drive machines in one cluster.

I've been quite happy with my machine. Great battery life. The most I've tracked at once was 10 tracks in (via my MOTU 828 mkII) and it seemed to go without a hitch. That said, I didn't expect any problems, because I used to record 8 simultaneous tracks while playing back 8 channels of mixed audio all the time back in '96 on a Pentium 133 desktop with a 5400 rpm drive. So... you know.

Anyhow, if battery life is important, the Pentium M is definitely something to look at.

But I've heard very good things about the brute processing power of AMD 64 laptops, which I'm told can be had fairly cheaply. (Although I would be wildly uncomfortable buying some of the brands I've seen bandied about.)

I build my own desktop machines. But a laptop is a whole 'nother kind of beast. Because I would not be comfortable beyond replacing a HD in a laptop (and quite possibly not in all laptops!) I got a very good 3 year, next day service contract. I've only used it once, to get them to send me a replacement rubber foot for the bottom of the machine, after one fell off the first day. They Fed-Exed a new rubber foot the next business day.

Anyhow, it might take a little adjusting, getting used to a laptop. Make SURE you rip out all the crapware that the vendors clog their machines witt -- I think there were something like 43 processes and 5 or 6 apps running after boot on my 'stock' machine. I spent the second day removing dumbassware and have since tweaked the machine down to a nice, tidy 112 MB load footprint. It feels quite fast compared to other machines I've been using lately. (Okay, they were another platform , but they were plenty expensive.)

[jcschild]

well the thruth be told AMD laptops are no where near the power of the Intel Sonoma laptops.

it kills me to say that, as its just the opposite for desktops and i am a big AMD fan.

EG: a test project we have can run @ 128 buffer on a well equiped Sonoma.
with the AMD well equiped only 1024

Scott
ADK

[theblue1]

That's interesting to know. The Sonoma, of course, is the current Pentium M chip, with a 533 MHz frontside bus (mine has a 400 MHz FSB) but without increased power consumption.

The Pentium M is, according to the huge SETI-at-Home testbed, the second most efficient chip in everyday use, after the Itanium. (IOW, it gets more work done per clock cycle than almost any other chip.)


I'd always liked my machine and thought it performed quite well vis a vis other folks laptops and desktops. But when I started reading up on the PM family, I started being really impressed.

So much so that it's my plan to build my next desktop around a Pentium M for noise/heat reasons -- and because it clearly is a little work horse. (My plan is to wait for the dual core PMs. That said, the 64 bit AMD chips are still in the running with me. But I remember how long it took 32 bit computing to roll out through the end of the 80s and beginning of the 90s... The AMD's are fast now with 32 bit OS and apps, but I'm thinking it will still be quite a while before they have 64 bit work to do in the real world.)

[George Necola]

you can go for the RME mobilerecording kit and add your favourite interface (or take a multiface, ADI-8)..

then your machine has not to take the whole load.. but I think it shouldnt be a problem with modern machines..

[manning1]

xtrans....heres my 2 cents fwiw.....and major points to consider....and i'm an amd fan...
but recognise the centrinos as being very very good........
heres my laptop rules as it were...
1. dont buy a laptop without testing with your audio software and chosen interface. ask the interface vendor for laptop recommendations....some laptops are not always compatible.
2. run task intensive tests. for example i use pitch shift dsp.
record a 3 minute track ...and time how long batch pitch shift takes on a
sempron laptop, a turion, amd 64, intel centrino, intel celeron m, intel p4 etc etc....
firstly youll learn a lot ....another test to do is record 10 tracks on each and time the mixdown...this way you will see the laptop which is most powerfull.
3. ive found of course more ram is good. 1 gig if need be. and replace the stupid internal drive with a 7200 rpm one if you can afford it.
the other day i saw a great fast laptop and the manufacturer put a stupid slow hard drive into it. why they do this i'll never know.
rather like putting a lousy transmission in a porsche....peace.

[jcschild]

HI Maning,
sorry i but i have to disagree with a few things

"""ask the interface vendor for laptop recommendations....some laptops are not always compatible.""""

manufacturer, most do not test(espeically laptops) every chipset. and they tend to have thier info be old

interface vendor~ LOL if they dont build (notice i didnt say sell) computers for a living they would be clueless.

there are numerous companies who sell audio products that wouldnt have a clue what laptop or computer to recommend. much less support the product on such.

then there are so called "Daw builders" who i see selling laptops i know dont work for crap for audio. (i wont mention names)

best bet check forums~ while you will get varied answers you can take the sum of the parts

call a few daw builders and see what you get for answers.
(for the record for those who dont know who i am, i am one of those guys)

and hey you are right about 1 thing

"""some laptops are not always compatible""""

i would go even further to say "most"

Scott
ADK

[manning1]

scott...
yeh....i see where your coming from. fair comment/good wisdom. ....

maybe i was naive enough to think that the manufacturers of usb and firewire interfaces would have musicians on their staff with laptop daw studios....and thus MIGHT be in SOME POSITION to suggest a suitable laptop brand/config that worked well with their own usb or firewire interfaces ....well i was hopefull anyway.

maybe its the way i said it.....but i was trying to say dont get the laptop and THEN expect any interface to work with it. rather....test out the usb or firewire interface with any laptop in advance of buying the laptop.
and of course ask around. the main problem i was trying to get across is ive seen too many people buy any old laptop, connect the interface with great happiness ...only to find some problem or tother.
frankly i dont think there is any perfect answer to this catch 22 issue...
because the laptop and interface technology is moving so very fast....
so its...buyer be carefull.

[Don S]

My experience with laptops FWIW.
If you want reliable performance in a laptop, I strongly reccomend a Mac. Either Powerbook or ibook. I started with a Toshiba P4 and life was hell. It was noisy, and worked some of the time. It turned out to be defective and Toshiba kept it for 3 months. When it came back it was still dodgy. I lost 800 by ebaying it 6 months after purchase. I own a G4 1.5 powerbook/gig ram and life is great. I can bearly hear it running! The house lights go down, my keyboard lights up and the screen dims automaticly. Was it worth the $2500. ABSOLUTELY.
I track with DP 4.6 and import the tracks to a PC tower running pyramix.
Cheap turns out to be expensive!

Don

[rush]

You might want to check out alienware (sager may have them as well) .. dual drives (with RAID 0!!!!!!) .. would give you a ton of space and killer performance

http://www.alienware.com

I'm sure other people will start comming out with RAID on laptops but this is the first that I've seen.

[theblue1]

I'm happy to say that Don S's experience with his Toshiba was very different than mine with my Dell Centrino. I've had no service issue since I bought it refurbished a year ago (save that I had them send out a new little rubber foot, which they sent Fedex the next business day). But if it does mess up, I've got a three year, next-day onsite warranty. (They come to where I am and fix it on site.) As I probably said above, with a laptop, a good warranty is crucial.

With regards to buying a Mac instead, there are many criteria -- and if you think you need a Mac, you'll probably be better off with one. But I also have some experience on a G4 Powerbook that was purchased around the same time my machine was first sold -- for about one third more than my machine would have cost brand new. It was similary set up (to mine when I got it) with a 1/2 GB of RAM and (the original receipt from the Apple store said) a 7200 rpm hard drive.

My machine (even before I threw extra RAM in it) felt like it ran circles around the G4. (In fact my machine feels much faster than a G5 iMac I've been using at a clients. Neither of these Macs was set up to do audio work and so I can only compare the flow and feel of the GUI and operations with large graphics files. File and GUI operations seem extremely sluggish to me on those machines.)

Speed is, of course, not everything. Sometimes, it's even a minor consideration, if at all. (Well, it's usually a consideration in audio, isn't it? But many everyday applications perform entirely adequately on slower machines.)

If you prefer Mac OS X/don't like Windows, you should really consider spending up and getting a Mac. But be ready to pay for what performance you get. (And keep in mind that Mac laptops seriously lag Mac desktops in speed, currently.)

(And you'll also want to look at some of the other issues with G4 Macs and performance, as well. There's an informative comparison of Mac models as well as interesting information on certain controller issues in G5s at MacInTouch, which, of course, don't apply to laptops, which only come with G4s, but is still definitely worth a read.)

[DeeDrive]

AMD blows, Intel all the way.

[wamus]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

AMD blows, Intel all the way.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

AMD blows, Intel all the way.

I really like my Intel-based laptop -- and I'm looking forward to building a desktop with the new 64-bit dualcore, shared cache next gen Pentium M's that will be coming out in the second half of '06 -- but I think that's an exceptionally foolish comment, above.

At this time AMD makes -- inarguably -- the fastest chips from almost every perspective.

Now, according to some supposedly in the know, AMD is going to have to work hard and cut some new ground to get to their next generation, since, according to this thinking, the current families have extended their basic design nearly as far as possible and now must be substantially redesigned around new die processes.

But to say "AMD blows" is just ignorant.

[DeeDrive]

And where did AMD get the designs and specs for their chips. Hmmm....Intel?

[klaukholm]

actually amd got their boost when the design team behind the alpha chip jumped ship to AMD. They hardly copied intel as the design is quite different.

kjetil

[DeeDrive]

and their compatible chipsets is purely coincidentanl?

[theblue1]

Offhand, one would guess you're not conversant in the history of these chip families. As far as I know, all the significant i.p. issues regarding these chip families has played out.

There are laws protecting the intellectual property and certain aspects of chip designs and Intel and AMD (as well as others) have pursued these issues.

You're welcome to your feelings, of course, but they're just that -- your feelings, and you'd probably do well to keep that in mind.


[Full disclosure: I've only ever owned one AMD machine out of 6 desktops and two laptops, the rest were Intel. And I'm actually excited about the new generation of Intels that I probably won't even be able to build around for a year and a half. They look great. But, that said, dumb ass statements like DeeDrive's "AMD blows" do annoy me.]

[jcschild]

Originally Posted by rush

You might want to check out alienware (sager may have them as well) .. dual drives (with RAID 0!!!!!!) .. would give you a ton of space and killer performance

http://www.alienware.com

I'm sure other people will start comming out with RAID on laptops but this is the first that I've seen.

that laptop is the D900 from Clevo and a peice of junk for audio

not to mention Alienware isnt a daw builder.

[rush]

Originally Posted by jcschild

that laptop is the D900 from Clevo and a peice of junk for audio

not to mention Alienware isnt a daw builder.

Never used one myself (I bought a vaio which I like) but I did see this on the alienware website ...

“The Area-51m’s have performed flawlessly for the 45+ shows of the tour, so we have never needed to use the backup system.”

Markus Heckmann,
VJ, Rush Tour

“My Alienware laptop serves as a vital lifeline [for] my on-stage performance, as I know this machine can handle the heavy demands of processing virtual instruments in a live performance setting and not choke in the height of performance. And it helps me keep my off-stage business running smooth in a non-office environment.”

Curse Mackey,
Multimedia Producer

So at least someone thinks they're decent

[jcschild]

Hey Rush,

they probably have the older Clevo D875, which did rock for audio.

the present D900(newer model) has the PCIe issue.

Scott

[DeeDrive]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Offhand, one would guess you're not conversant in the history of these chip families. As far as I know, all the significant i.p. issues regarding these chip families has played out.

There are laws protecting the intellectual property and certain aspects of chip designs and Intel and AMD (as well as others) have pursued these issues.

You're welcome to your feelings, of course, but they're just that -- your feelings, and you'd probably do well to keep that in mind.


[Full disclosure: I've only ever owned one AMD machine out of 6 desktops and two laptops, the rest were Intel. And I'm actually excited about the new generation of Intels that I probably won't even be able to build around for a year and a half. They look great. But, that said, dumb ass statements like DeeDrive's "AMD blows" do annoy me.]

All of these IP issues have "played out" because Intel has put in huge amounts of protection to insure their IP doesn't leak, especially with the new dual core products coming out. Once these products do come out, AMD is going to way behind the game again, and it will be pretty evident why, because they are in actuality far behind Intel in the development game, they just play follow the leader really well. If you want to question my credibility, I work in an Intel fab everyday and see these events as they unfold, but then I suppose I'm "Intel Biased", so you can't believe anything I say.

Is this better than "AMD Blows"? Their kinda like the Behinger of CPU's.

[rush]

Originally Posted by jcschild

Hey Rush,

they probably have the older Clevo D875, which did rock for audio.

the present D900(newer model) has the PCIe issue.

Scott

Well I went out looking for some info on PCI Express issues (for my own edification) and this is what I came up with...

High powered PCI Express Video cards can definitely "hog" bandwidth and cause audio problems with some applications (Nuendo was one of the apps mentioned). I haven't had any direct experience with this but it makes sense. Also this problem seems to be related to just the video cards not the architecture (affects Intel/AMD/MAC). You have some experience with this (it looks like you sell these machines on your site) so I definitely have to defer to you when you say they aren't good for pro audio. I did read that some of the lower speed PCI Express cards may be OK as they don't use as much bandwidth.

So maybe a RAID configuration with a lower bandwidth video card would be the way to go for Audio ap performance

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

All of these IP issues have "played out" because Intel has put in huge amounts of protection to insure their IP doesn't leak, especially with the new dual core products coming out. Once these products do come out, AMD is going to way behind the game again, and it will be pretty evident why, because they are in actuality far behind Intel in the development game, they just play follow the leader really well. If you want to question my credibility, I work in an Intel fab everyday and see these events as they unfold, but then I suppose I'm "Intel Biased", so you can't believe anything I say.

Is this better than "AMD Blows"? Their kinda like the Behinger of CPU's.

I pointed out that almost all of my machines have been Intel based (I should have written 7 out of 8; I forgot one laptop from the late 80s.) And I'm very excited about the upcoming releases. I'm looking forward to building a box around the 64 bit, dual core "PM" that should be out next fall.

But that doesn't have anything to do with me thinking that the flat comment "AMD blows" is unhelpful and misleading. If you want to talk about AMD's IP practices -- then, by all means, at least some of us will listen with genuine interest. (Whether they keep listening would be up to you, I suspect.)

But in a thread about practical consumer options, it's seriously impertinent to simply drop in the unqualified comment that "AMD blows" as though it meant a laptop built around their chips would be a bad buy.

Because that's manifestly not the case. If machines built around AMD chips were inherently inferior, believe me, we'd know it by now... there'd be an army of offended box builders and other consumers.

In reality, AMD chips are the current top performers by most benchmarks.

Now, if you want to start a thread about AMD and your perceptions of their IP practices, I'll be one of the first to read it and, if I have anything to say, post in it.

But this thread was started by a consumer who has to make a decision that will be best for him in the real world.

And in that real world, the courts are where IP practices are ultimately sorted out. Not the marketplace.

If you want to alert consumers to what you feel are unfair practices that haven't been addressed by the courts, I suggest a much more straightforward and helpful way to do it would be to say something like:

I work for Intel and even though the courts have not decided the way I wanted or gone as far as I want, I think there are [x, y, and z] ethical issues that should make you not consider an AMD based machine.


Don't just be a lameass and say, "AMD blows."

[DeeDrive]

Jesus, I'll apologize...

I'm ever so sorry for saying "AMD blows". I was in a hurry, I saw this thread and I noticed the guy seemed interested in AMD, and it was only a quick attempt to voice my opinion of them, so that he might consider an Intel or Mac and not be stuck on AMD. I used to have an AMD machine, and I think my Intel based machines have always worked better for audio. I also don't like the fact that Digidesign only guarantees that their hardware will work on P4 platforms and not AMD's necessarily. I also have some issues with the way AMD has done business in the past. I didn't have time to write all this at the time, so I said "AMD Blows". Forgive me, now that I have further elaborated on my dislike of AMD devices.

[manning1]

deedrive...
ive never worked for amd or intel, but ive worked as a computer engr for several decades in the computer industry.
i do my own independent testing of various systems as i own my own little songwriting recording studio set up, and i'm always looking for faster systems for my studio.
looking to get possibly into dual processors i recently tested an intel dual processor system.
heres how i did the test.,,and i do the same on every system for fairness.
i record a 3 minute mono audio file at 44.1/16 then hilite the whole file...and process pitch shift against the whole 3 minutes...and time with a watch how long the pitch shift process takes.
why i like this is because it tests the whole system architecture.
the intel dual core surprised me ...in that my amd single processor system beat it by a major margin.
which surprised the heck out of me. the intel dual took 38 secs....
my amd SINGLE processor takes 6 secs. !!
by the way...the dual core system was properly set up by the retailer...
i checked. needless to say i was very surprised.
you can run the same test yourself on a sempron, an amd 64 and make timing comparisons.

however i still have the greatest respect for centrinos.
all the best.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

Jesus, I'll apologize...

I'm ever so sorry for saying "AMD blows". I was in a hurry, I saw this thread and I noticed the guy seemed interested in AMD, and it was only a quick attempt to voice my opinion of them, so that he might consider an Intel or Mac and not be stuck on AMD. I used to have an AMD machine, and I think my Intel based machines have always worked better for audio. I also don't like the fact that Digidesign only guarantees that their hardware will work on P4 platforms and not AMD's necessarily. I also have some issues with the way AMD has done business in the past. I didn't have time to write all this at the time, so I said "AMD Blows". Forgive me, now that I have further elaborated on my dislike of AMD devices.

Sorry I beat it to death. But now we all know (or those of us still reading ) why you hold that antipathy. Some folks might have dismissed it as just someone posting an off the wall opinion before but now they can see there's a rationale and basis for your negative feelings about AMD. We all come out winners.

Now -- get back to work on those next gen "Pentium M"'s... I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on one next fall... I'm gonna build that fastest, quietest, leanest, meanest...

[jcschild]

Originally Posted by rush

Well I went out looking for some info on PCI Express issues (for my own edification) and this is what I came up with...

High powered PCI Express Video cards can definitely "hog" bandwidth and cause audio problems with some applications (Nuendo was one of the apps mentioned). I haven't had any direct experience with this but it makes sense. Also this problem seems to be related to just the video cards not the architecture (affects Intel/AMD/MAC). You have some experience with this (it looks like you sell these machines on your site) so I definitely have to defer to you when you say they aren't good for pro audio. I did read that some of the lower speed PCI Express cards may be OK as they don't use as much bandwidth.

So maybe a RAID configuration with a lower bandwidth video card would be the way to go for Audio ap performance

whats even odder still is the newer Sonoma laptops (915 PM)
work fine with a higer powered video card.
where the 915 chipset (Clevo D900) does not.

FYI the Sonoma far out performs the P4 found in the D900!
yet another shocker.

Scott
ADK