film session clips

[klaukholm]

I am in the middle of mixing down a 5.0 to 2.0 for the DVD release of a film session we did some time ago.
The original mix was for the big screen.

We had to do about 6 minutes of music per hour of recording time and the film went to premiere two weeks later, giving us two days to mix and edit 55 minutes of music.
We had never recorded this orchestra, nor had we worked in that hall.
They had never played with click, and we had to build a controlroom 75 meters from the stage using ASC traps.
This is not the final stereo mix, but I thought it would not hurt to get some feedback from colleagues.

[Roland]

Sounds great! As you say there are just a few balance issues which I guess is what you are working on at the moment. Did you have a spot on the glock?

Will you be adding any further reverb or will it stay at that?

I hope you will post a sample of the finished mix. Look forward to hearing it.

Regards


Roland

[_Morph_]

Seems good, although a bit far away. There's a bit too much indirect sound or artificial reverberation that's pushing the orchestra away. I like where the mix is going! thumbsup

[klaukholm]

I have some degree of control of the glock. Let me see what I can do.

Nice of you to be so gentle.
If you have any thoughts on general colour, blend and wetness, let me hear it!

The strings were underpowered (10-8-7-6-5)


I would also gladly discuss mic placement/angling in detail, and would be willing to provide clips of soloed mics, should any of you want to go there.

It seems that the two of you have differing opinions on the reverb/LSRS amount.
Could you both go into detail?


Coming from the classical world, I tend to hear things wetter than the post guys like, but closer than a lot of classical releases.
I can't see it being wetter than this, and it needs work.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Coming from the classical world, I tend to hear things wetter than the post guys like, but closer than a lot of classical releases

That seems to characterize the recording well. For a film, it does sound fairly ambient, more like a symphony concert - certainly not too close for my taste, BTW, if it were Ravel or so...

Do you have a list of the mic setup you used? Would be interesting to see which and how many spots you used. What can you do for the strings? Don't know what ind of film this is, but maybe a bit more "Schmelz" wouldn't do any harm.

Is the reverb natural?

Daniel

[klaukholm]

The original 5.0 was definately drier than this, and I think it may need to be tightened up a bit for the 2.0 as well.
The movie is a sci-fi feature.

I had a severe track limitation and had to keep it to 25 channels, as we were in two places at once due to a last minute move of this session.
Normally I would run about 44 mics for this kind of work.
I don't remember all the spots, as we did not use our usual config, but it is something like this.


Main rig:
LSRS DPA 4003

Wide LR and Decca tree M150

Royer SF12

Spots:
Trumpet feature RCA44BX
Trumpet group TLM170
Trombone feature RCA77d
Trombone group, bass trombone, tuba TLM170 each

winds:
Clarinet and bassoon shared a MKH800
Flute and oboe started the session with km184, which was changed to a mk4 on the flute later on. (this clip was km184...)

Strings (not quite sure):
Bass, TLM170
Violins I TLM170
violin II MK4
Viola and cello were mk6

harp, mk4
timpani: 4012

there was only one 4012 for the rest of the percussion...

[klaukholm]

Here is a different version, small adjustments, no reverb at all.


MP3 files do strange things to the mix though....

[klaukholm]

Here is another clip.

Harp panning in the middle is programatic with a carusell in the left of the big screen.

[Roland]

I felt that the glock needed a little more presence during it's feature part. It figures as you say that the strings were a little underpowered. The tromb's overpower a little bit. The reverb thing, I probably didn't explain as well as I should, I could actually do with the strings being forward and the brass back a little, for me at the moment the strings have less presence than the brass, possibly more (dare I say it) string spots, to chunk up the sound, at the moment (at least on the first clip, I haven't listened to the others) there is a little lack of body in the string sound. In my experience, with lack of string numbers you need to spot per desk, even if it means artificial verb to bring it back to life a little. Guess it's the difference between film/soundtrack orchestral sound as aginst what we would want for pure orchestral recording session. All that being said, it's quality sound, professionally recorded and I suspect the client is very very happy.

Regards


Roland

[klaukholm]

The problem with the string spots (violins are rarely in) is that I have a lot of bleed even though they are close spotted. TLMs just don't isolate enough for this kind of work. Particularly if the brass get triggerhappy.
I needed 5 more string spots for this if not more.
The stage was simply too crowded to separate players the way I would like to.

The glock is too close to the snare (30 cm) so I get zero isolation of snare and glock.

Thank you for your comments so far, keep em coming!

[klaukholm]

Two more cues

Here is one

[klaukholm]

here's the other

[aracu]

Spacious canyons and caviar.

[Teddy Ray]

The trumpets sound very flat/and off on the group-attack to me, but it is a beautiful recording..outside of the issues(which could be in my head), I find no fault with the balance..

[csbarnet]

In the first clip, the strings and winds don't quite blend. I think, that as Roland says, that it's because the winds (especially trumpet section) are more present than the strings. However, it doesn't bother me as much that the solo instruments have more presence. FWIW I liked the first version better.

The other clips sound very, very good.

Teddy, I think I hear what you're hearing in the trumpet unison lines. However, if you listen closely to the original Star Wars soundtrack (LSO), you'll hear a lot of things more noticeable than that.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by csbarnet

In the first clip, the strings and winds don't quite blend. I think, that as Roland says, that it's because the winds (especially trumpet section) are more present than the strings. However, it doesn't bother me as much that the solo instruments have more presence. FWIW I liked the first version better.

The other clips sound very, very good.

Teddy, I think I hear what you're hearing in the trumpet unison lines. However, if you listen closely to the original Star Wars soundtrack (LSO), you'll hear a lot of things more noticeable than that.

Yeah, definitely... no argument from me there. I've just been really sensitive to pitch the past couple years...since touring with the Stamps and Brass Groups, Elvis's TCB Band, etc, funky pitches really stick out to me. Probably because our Music director was a slavedriving perfectionist.