soldering Starquad cable

[krs]

Quick question for the more technically inclined

After connecting the shield to pin 1, do you make a bridge over to the chassis? (On both ends?) I soldered mine up in a hurry for a gig (with the bridge), they performed perfectly, but I was advised recently against doing this. Pros/cons?

Is it worth redoing them with solder w/ silver content? I used 63/37 tin/lead

thanks! thumbsup

[bishopthomas]

Braided star quad, what a pain! You're a better man than I. I don't shield the chassis to pin 1.

[rumleymusic]

You mean a bridge to the metal XLR casing over the cable?

DO NOT DO THAT!.

You will create a ground loop. You only bridge pin 1 to the chassis on the piece of gear you are connecting to. Not on the cable. As a matter of fact, It would be a good idea to get some shrink wrap and put it around the part of the braid you are connecting to pin 1, so it does not touch the casing.

[nosebleedaudio]

Consider this: once the XLR is plugged in the case WILL be grounded.
You do NOT want to connect the shield to the case; IF it is connected and you have it plugged into something that is grounded and you grab the case(XLR) and something else that is not grounded and it has a voltage on the chassis YOU will be its connection...shock hazard... this is one GOOD reason NOT to connect them...

I Have connected it only once, and the cable was labeled as such...It was for a mic that had a funky ground..

[krs]

Awesome guys thanks.

This is what got me on to it in the first place, maybe I misunderstood:

Sound System Interconnection

About 1/8th of the way down:

"The Absolute Best Right Way To Do It

The method specified by AES48 is to use balanced lines and tie the cable shield to the metal chassis (right where it enters the chassis) at both ends of the cable."

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by krs

Awesome guys thanks.

This is what got me on to it in the first place, maybe I misunderstood:

Sound System Interconnection

About 1/8th of the way down:

"The Absolute Best Right Way To Do It

The method specified by AES48 is to use balanced lines and tie the cable shield to the metal chassis (right where it enters the chassis) at both ends of the cable."

Its NOT the cable ends that are tied together, it's the internal wiring of the gear...

[Don S]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Braided star quad, what a pain! You're a better man than I. I don't shield the chassis to pin 1.

I second that. A huge PITA! But I found canare is flexible enough to make it doable.

[krs]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

Its NOT the cable ends that are tied together, it's the internal wiring of the gear...

Sorry - can you clarify this? The quote is talking about the cable shield? Thanks

[krs]

I'm using the Redco stuff - it's good. Not too bad to work with, my initial impression is it is quieter than the Mogami (non SQ) stuff I have been using recently.

[JoeyM]

I liked the 100 feet of Starquad I bought from Markertek, less than 1/2 price of Sweetwater. 60 cents a foot! Price may have changed, but no doubt the quality is great after testing it for 3 years.

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by krs

Sorry - can you clarify this? The quote is talking about the cable shield? Thanks

The XLR case on a mic cable should NOT be connected to the shield, the Chassis mounted XLR case is what I saw as being grounded, which it will be anyway like I mentioned above, metal to metal...

How it is grounded INSIDE the gear is up to the designer...

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by krs

Sorry - can you clarify this? The quote is talking about the cable shield? Thanks

It's confusing the way that was stated but the pictures show it as the jack on the equipment having pin 1 grounded to the chassis. Also if you read a little farther it says "Since standard XLR cables come with their shields tied to pin 1 at each end (the shells are not tied, nor need be),"

[krs]

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

It's confusing the way that was stated but the pictures show it as the jack on the equipment having pin 1 grounded to the chassis. Also if you read a little farther it says "Since standard XLR cables come with their shields tied to pin 1 at each end (the shells are not tied, nor need be),"

Got it. Thank you!! Any advice on using solder w/ silver content?

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by krs

Got it. Thank you!! Any advice on using solder w/ silver content?

I don't like it. I used it on a DIY pre recently and to get it to flow I found myself damaging the PCB. I really dont think it sounds better or anything like that anyway. Cleaning and techinique are the most important thing.

[Audiop]

No reason to redo the soldering.

As Mike mentioned, typically the XLR chassi/shell will be grounded by the chassis of the connected gear.

Daisy chaining two XLR cables with "floating" shell may lead to problems though since you effectively will end up with something like four inches of the cable not being screened.

A remedy for the above situation i to use a third cable as a link in between the first two cables. The third cable shall have the screen connected to the XLR chassis on both sides. This provides a full screen even though the two main cables have floating XLR chassis.


/Peter

[LX3]

On the silver-solder subject, I've been using (the same huge reel of) silver-content solder for the last six or seven years. It does make the most beautiful joints and technically-speaking, Neutrik used to recommend that you use silver solder for their connectors to reduce galvanic something-or-other (since the contacts are silver plated).

However, my solder all dates back from before the RoHS directives, so contains lead. It's a breeze to work with. I don't know what the lead-free silver stuff is like, it might be much tougher going. I did have one small sample of silver solder from way back that was close to impossible to use, and that put me off silver solder for a long time. It clearly wasn't the same stuff as I'm using now.

I do know that solder with a silver content does have a higher melting point, so you may need to change irons or bits. Whatever solder you're using, a cheap soldering iron will make your life hell. Buy the best temperature-controlled iron you can afford and you'll never regret it. Mine's been happily trucking along now for 23 years, and I can still get spares for it if I need to.

[krs]

very informative! Thanks everyone.

One last question, do you shrink wrap your leads inside the XLR chassis?

[rumleymusic]

One last question, do you shrink wrap your leads inside the XLR chassis?

I only shrink wrap the ground because the wires are exposed, and it is imperative not to let them touch the other connectors or the casing.

Got it. Thank you!! Any advice on using solder w/ silver content?

I never use silver solder. I don't know if it is bad for cables, but you are never supposed to use it on through hole components on a PCB (so i have read) I just use a good quality lead based solder. Sorry environmentalists

I second that. A huge PITA! But I found canare is flexible enough to make it doable.

The shield is kind of tricky to unravel. But there is a trick. If you take a semi pointy object like a small flathead screwdriver and scrape the exposed copper weave toward the end of the cable, it should unravel easily enough.

I'm using the Redco stuff - it's good. Not too bad to work with, my initial impression is it is quieter than the Mogami (non SQ) stuff I have been using recently.

I have a couple 150' segments of their 2 channel snake cable. The price is great for the quality (which is very good). The only thing I don't like is the outer casing, which is not as durable as Canare or Mogami. You have to be careful when using it on location.

[aracu]

Canare makes a thin version of their star quad cable. It's great to use on
boompoles as it transmits less contact sounds than regular width cable.

[bishopthomas]

I bought new solder a couple of months ago so it was the lead free stuff. Wouldn't melt well even at 650 degrees. A buddy had a stockpile of the old stuff so I got a roll from him. Much better!

[JEGG]

The convention is to not connect the shell.

However, depending on what microphones are in use, and if you are RF problems-particularly cell phone problems-you would be wise to connect the shells to the braid.

Friction connections work very different at RF than they do at AF and below (DC).

I haven't found this necessary in my own work, but with the early unmodified Neumann KM180 series, along with some other mic's, I wouldn't hesitate to do this.

[John Willett]

Personally I use the new Neutrik EMC series now - they connect to the shell via capacitors and also have a ferrite bead on pin-1. The female has a toothed ring for good contact and RF protection.

[grindx]

This star Quad is $.50 per foot and has a drain wire (no combing of braid)

More flexible and durable than Canare.

Mink4, Fieldflex Mink, Studflex Microphone Cable-Welcome to Clark Wire & Cable

[audioboffin]

For some nutty reason I have a memory of Neumann at one time recommending that mic cables for use with their condensor microphones should have the pin 1 shield tied to the XLR's chassis at the microphone end of the cable in order to shunt RF to ground. The capacitor inside the new Netrik series would provide a path for high frequencies to ground without providing a DC link.

[grindx]

Originally Posted by audioboffin

For some nutty reason I have a memory of Neumann at one time recommending that mic cables for use with their condensor microphones should have the pin 1 shield tied to the XLR's chassis at the microphone end of the cable in order to shunt RF to ground. The capacitor inside the new Netrik series would provide a path for high frequencies to ground without providing a DC link.

The Neutrik EMC series are good for keeping out the cell phone buzzing. There is a low pass filter at 1 MHz.

[locutus]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Personally I use the new Neutrik EMC series now - they connect to the shell via capacitors and also have a ferrite bead on pin-1. The female has a toothed ring for good contact and RF protection.

Does anyone else use these Neutrik EMC series connectors? We have one vote. Curious about other experiences.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by locutus

Does anyone else use these Neutrik EMC series connectors? We have one vote. Curious about other experiences.

I'm glad you brought this up since I got side tracked.
I wanted to order some and see how it works for myself.

I will report back when I test them out.
I may, buy the adaptors first, then see where I want to go with them.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Audiop

No reason to redo the soldering.

As Mike mentioned, typically the XLR chassi/shell will be grounded by the chassis of the connected gear.

Daisy chaining two XLR cables with "floating" shell may lead to problems though since you effectively will end up with something like four inches of the cable not being screened.

A remedy for the above situation i to use a third cable as a link in between the first two cables. The third cable shall have the screen connected to the XLR chassis on both sides. This provides a full screen even though the two main cables have floating XLR chassis.


/Peter

I've daisy chained many 25-foot mic cables together and never had a RF problem. None of the connectors in my cables are tied to the shield.

In the old days, it was normal to connect pin one to the connector shell. If one of these connectors accidentally connected with a poorly insulated electrical outlet box on stage, you might get sparks and damaged equipment. That's why we disconnected the connector shell on our mic cables.

[studer58]

This might be relevant to the thread above....recording in the middle of the city this week using a Neumann U89i mic with Belden star quad cable I was surprised to find a local pop music radio station leaking in at a low level (but loud enough to hear....and record !) The mic cable was made about 3 years ago and has never given this problem before...it is only around 6 metres in length. The same length and type of Belden cables was also connected to a pair of Sennheiser MKH8020 omni mics at the session (they were the overall pickup pair), which themselves have 3 metre 'remote cable' tails, of shoelace thin ultra flexible regular mic cable...yet these didn't pick up any RF at all. The same mic preamp (8 channel DAV BG8) was used for all mics, although the gain on the U89 was higher than for the Sennheisers. Therefore I can only conclude that the U89 is allowing the RF to leak in. In the Belden cables, the shield is not grounded to the XLR shell at either end. Any ideas about how to fix this ...is there a general Neumann FAQ about this problem anyone can point me towards ? Perhaps I should just dedicate a few lengths of cable exclusively to the U89 and tie pin 1 to the shield...but at both ends or just one ? Maybe re-soldering the new Neutrik EMC XLR's onto all my cables would fix the problem...or is there some internal fix I can perform on the mic itself ?
Thanks,
Ray

[TRJanuary]

There are several microphone experts, for example Klaus Heine, who feel that connecting the shell is still the way to go, at least on the end where it is connected to a MICROPHONE. But not necessarily on cable being used for line level/other studio tasks.