Re-racking my rig - Thoughts

[noamraz]

So I'm expanding the rig and thinking about re-racking my equipment.

At the moment I have 4U of 24 preamps, 3U of HD24, 1U W/C generator (1U) and ADAT interface which is connected to the HD24's ADAT outputs to provide monitoring and some kind of backup on a Laptop.

Everything now is pretty always-connected but it will not stay like this as I find myself carrying the preamps or the recorder separately from time to time.

What I am thinking about at the moment is to rack the equipment into two different racks - Preamps and Recorders.

In few months after I will get these racks up and running I will add 1 more 1U of preamps and add an additional HD24 in order to make this rig 32 tracks capable.

Both of the new racks will have 1U power conditioner + lights at the top and the Recorders rack will have UPS which is not a rack-mountable but more like an ordinary office UPS box.

I wish to make the new racks future proof in terms of free space/usage –
Do you use any drawers in your racks?
How do you connect the preamps to the recorders, Is it multipin connector?

Would be more than happy to get some suggestions for racking a recording system in this scale.

[gareth.h.rees]

This thread my help:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...look-like.html

[bishopthomas]

So, preamp rack (6U):
1U Furman power/lights
5U Preamps


And recorder rack (12U):
1U Furman power/lights
6U HD24's
1U WC Gen
1U ADAT Interface
2U Rack Drawer

I would make the recorder rack a 14 space on casters and the preamp rack an 8 space without. It can ride on the wheely case. Add a case for mics, adapters, and/or cables and a couple of stand bags and you should be set.

Multipins to connect it all makes setup a breeze. My new rig design is all in one 14 space rack, Elco ins from the Elco out of the splitter. Elco out to a console for monitoring and I'm ready to press record.

[noamraz]

Dont you think that 6U rack for 6U of preamps+power conditioner is a bit small in terms of ventilation? It can get very hot here in the summer..

[gareth.h.rees]

Make it a bit bigger and leave 1/2u in between each one?

[fifthcircle]

I like a modular setup. My pres are in 4 and 8 channel racks. Same with conversion... I find that I have multiple gigs out regularly and I need to provide for myself and my employees. To have more smaller rigs has made life much easier.

--Ben

[NorseHorse]

Ditto. But it really depends on what your clientele is like as to whether this is the way to go for you.

[noamraz]

I find this Modular system/way the best in my situation.

Regarding interconnection,

As far as it goes when connecting the preamps rack to the recorders rack, How would you do it?

The outputs of all the preamps are DB25 and the inputs of the recorder are TRS.

Multipin connections between both of the Racks plus TRS Patches to accommodate any "guest" outboard ? or staying with what i have, leaving the DB25 snakes inside the preamps rack and re-patching them every gig ?

[talbe1019]

I actually have my setup split in half. I have 24 ch or preamps, an HD24XR and power conditioner in one 8 space case...and will have the same setup up in another 8 space case (when I buy 16 more preamps). I have a UPS and a drawer in another 6 space. I recently went this route agter deciding that a 16 and 10 space shock mount case were way to heavy. In the 8 space cases I also have DB25 outputs on the pre's (ATI's) and have everything always wired so all I have to do is plug in the snake from the split.

[Remoteness]

Here are a couple of racks that have space in between the devices.

Our True System P8s (not shown) have 1/3U spacing inside a 4U SKB ROTO case for ventilation.
We also modified the rear of the rack to accept a UCP rack with chassis mounted ELCOs and an AC inlet connector.

Pretty much all our racks have chassis mounted ELCos / XLRs / BNCs / AC inlets to make interfacing a snap!

We can interface in between racks or use one of our portable patch bays. The portable bays interface via ELCO and MASS W4 connectors.

We are about to build a 20U portable patch bay which will have built in pads, transformers, distribution amps besidesthe jack field and chassis mounted XLRs and multi-pin connectors.

[noamraz]

How would you patch the preamps rack to the recorders rack?

What i am thinking at the moment is to connect the DB25 cables to the preamps rack and patch the TRS fans every gig to the recorders (leaving a spare DB25 to TRS snake as a backup butofcourse inside the rack).

At the length of 2.5m of each DB25-TRS cable i will have plenty of spare space when i will (if) install Multipin connectors later on.

I am thinking of doing that instead of the oposite - TRS connected to the recorders and patching the SB25 to the preamps every gig, since i find the DB25 connectors not build for heavy duty jobs..

Am i on the right track?

[Remoteness]

Here are a few more pictures that show the back of two recorder systems and a small portable mic pre set-up.

Well, for us it depends on whether or not we're using one of our patch bays.
If we're interfacing a mic pre set with a recorder set we would basically interface the two racks via ELCO harnesses.

Each rack is wired to chassis mounted ELCOs...

So, either DSUB25s; XLRs, TRS connectors are wired to the rear panel ELCOs.

IMO, you're on the right track!
I'm with you on the concept of connecting the DB25 cables to the preamps rack and patch the TRS fans every gig to the recorders, but I would swap the connectors that I would interface. I would install the DSUBs instead of the TRS connectors.
You got less chance of a miss patch.

I like the spare DB25 to TRS snake as a backup; we do the same thing, but bring at least two DSUB25/TRS snakes for extra measure.

Furthermore, the extra length is a great idea if and when you update to multi-pin connectors.

As long as you use good quality connectors and you're careful when inserting the DSUB25 you should be just fine.

I totally understand if you want to go the other way.

Originally Posted by noamraz

How would you patch the preamps rack to the recorders rack?

What i am thinking at the moment is to connect the DB25 cables to the preamps rack and patch the TRS fans every gig to the recorders (leaving a spare DB25 to TRS snake as a backup butofcourse inside the rack).

At the length of 2.5m of each DB25-TRS cable i will have plenty of spare space when i will (if) install Multipin connectors later on.

I am thinking of doing that instead of the oposite - TRS connected to the recorders and patching the SB25 to the preamps every gig, since i find the DB25 connectors not build for heavy duty jobs..

Am i on the right track?

[bove]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Here are a few more pictures that show the back of two recorder systems and a small portable mic pre set-up.

Steve! Thanks for the pictures! That's a wonderful setup on the back of those racks.

[noamraz]

Appreciate your assistance, Thanks!

[LX3]

Steve, I love the pieces of foam wedged between each True P8 and the top/bottom of the case! Simple solution to a common problem with many of these 1U preamps. Some of them really haven't been well thought-out from an industrial design angle.

(And amazingly, the cost of the preamp doesn't necessarily correspond to the quality of the case design. e.g. Octopre = great. Mackie 800R = great. Certain more expensive ones which I shouldn't whinge on about = pretty poor).

[Remoteness]

Thanks Paul.

They would have been all the same color, but that pink colored foam fit so perfectly we went with it.

On heavier gear we drill holes on the each side of the rack, then install tee nuts and screw threaded rod across through the two holes so the back of the gear sits on the solid rod just right.
We also apply heat shrink (and sometimes foam) around the thread rod so it doesn't damage the equipment.

We always appreciate the simple solutions around here at Aura-Sonic.
Using hard foam in between each preamp (or other device) was a simple, but efficient way to handle the problem at hand.

[noamraz]

Follow up

Ok, So i went with the 1U spacing - I'm too shy to post the back of the racks, Will post a picture of the back as soon as i will finish with cabling.

[LX3]

Well done on getting your kit rearranged. I'm still in the process of reshuffling all my racks, so I completely understand what you've been thru.

(Just got my new mixer case today, my new rack cases arrive next week. Oh the excitement!).

That Lucid clock is starting to really get some love with us mobile recording types eh? Have had mine two or three years now I think. Great little box, reassuringly idiot-proof. Despite having an Isochrone, my Lucid still gets a lot of use.

[noamraz]

I have been doing alot of thinking latly about my setup.

Getting track-count to 32 tracks is highest priority at the moment since 24 tracks does not work well for me.

In addition, I am thinking about setting my own splitting system - 32 channels.

So when having my own splitting system and rack of preamps, I guess that i should not avoid with installing multi-pin connectors this time, It will reduce set-up time significantly, Especially when it comes to two racks that are 25 meters away.

But -
I would be more than happy to get some assistance here, I am not sure about how i want it to be done, Should i have multiple input options to my Preamps rack?

My preamps rack is single rack with 32 preamps, I am sure that installing Multipin inputs to the rack would do the job, Do you think i will benefit of having Chassis XLR inputs in paralel to these multipin Inputs?

When thinking about preamps racks, I do have a feeling that once i'll step into the 48 track world, I will split preamps racks into 24 preamps each (They are quite heavy now) so i would like to think about 24 multipin connectors/system to avoid the cost the next upgrade - Am i right?

Take in count that i still did not get any idea of which splitting system i am after, at the moment it seems that i'm after Passive, I would be happy to hear about different solutions that some splitting systems's can offer in that matter.

[LX3]

For me, the inputs to my preamp rack is one place where I don't use multipins, because I often need to make input patch decisions at that point in the chain.

Having patched your splitter into the system on stage, you may find that there are channels coming to you from stage that you don't need to record, or if the input list is slightly non-sensical, you might want to re-patch channels into a more logical order.

(that happened to me last week, never seen anything like it... it was as if someone wrote down all the signal sources, jumbled them up, and picked them out of a hat to decide the channel order. We stuck with it to save time and avoid potential confusion, but it made our live mix unbelievably difficult.)

[bishopthomas]

I have both XLR and Elco inputs on my rack panel. This can also serve as a basic Y split in a pinch.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by LX3

For me, the inputs to my preamp rack is one place where I don't use multipins, because I often need to make input patch decisions at that point in the chain.

Having patched your splitter into the system on stage, you may find that there are channels coming to you from stage that you don't need to record, or if the input list is slightly nonsensical, you might want to re-patch channels into a more logical order.

(that happened to me last week, never seen anything like it... it was as if someone wrote down all the signal sources, jumbled them up, and picked them out of a hat to decide the channel order. We stuck with it to save time and avoid potential confusion, but it made our live mix unbelievably difficult.)

Some of my pre amp racks only have XLRs for the same reason you mentioned.
On our larger systems we also have portable patch bay racks, so all patching is done there.

Ah yes, the nonsensical input list.
I see more and more of this happening when digital desks are involved.
Folks don't want to physically re-patch anymore when all you have to do is re-route your inputs to the correct channels.

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

I have both XLR and Elco inputs on my rack panel. This can also serve as a basic Y split in a pinch.

Yep, I totally understand that dynamic.

[therecordinghous]

unless you custom wire some sort of mass connector between racks, i would just put it all in one. i have one big rack with pres, recorders, and WC all in one pre wired. i can literally have my rig ready to roll in under 10 minutes.

plugging and unplugging cables from the back of gear all the time is harder on the piece than you think.

[Remoteness]

That's pretty cool Lynn, but many of the forum members have to hump their own gear and one huge rack usually doesn't work very well in the (single person) lifting department.

Many of my so called "portable" racks weigh hundreds of pounds.
Our portable dates are clearly not a one person gig.
That's why we also have a few small racks, so we could handle smaller dates when applicable.

[fifthcircle]

Lifting is one thing, but the other issue is being able to fit the rig in a car or small SUV. Not all of us have a truck to hump our gear around.

--Ben

[Remoteness]

Yes indeed; that's very true.

I still have a fair amount of SKB cases, so I can just toss them in the backseat and/or trunk of the car.

[LX3]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Ah yes, the nonsensical input list.
I see more and more of this happening when digital desks are involved.
Folks don't want to physically re-patch anymore when all you have to do is re-route your inputs to the correct channels.

Funny thing was, the input list was written by the FOH engineer, who was running a Midas H3000. Yep, he really did have a vocal on fader 13, another on 29, and some more nearer the 30-40 range, with all manner of other stuff scattered inbetween.

The board wasn't even laid out as per the stage, L to R. It really did appear to be random.

Wish I'd had a bunch of different coloured highlighter pens with me!

If you can't get everything into a single rack (if I wanted to go that route, that rack would have to be at least 20U) then it's definitely advisable to use multipins for connections between racks. I'm not sure I would want or need preamp 20 connected to anything other than track 20.

The only place it would be useful to do that kind of cross-patch is if you have a variety of different preamps, and preferences as to what preamp gets used where - say a vocal is on 19 from stage, but you want to use your preamp no.5, BUT still want it recorded on track 19...

Which probably means it's time for a patchbay... so you can still use multipins.

FWIW, at the speed we need to operate I'm pretty sure I couldn't work like that. I prefer to use a stack of indentical, versatile preamps to save having to make those sort of potentially confusing patch decisions.

[Remoteness]

Wow, I wonder if that cat had a formula...

You never know.

I tend to think in eights when I'm putting together an input list.


Yeah, I'm kind of the same with regard to the identical preamp vibe.

[noamraz]

Thank you all!

Your assistance/thoughts here became a great factor in my desicions making formula.

[Remoteness]

That is what this forum is all about my GS friend.

All the best to and yours!