Thoughts about degrees and recording classical music

[Corran]

I'm faced with a difficult decision and I want some opinions from you guys since it has something to do with recording.

One week ago I got two undergraduate degrees, one in music ed and one in music composition. It was really through my college program that I began my endeavors into recording. I also found that I didn't like teaching band so much and would rather record full-time. However I am still having issues with this, a lot of it having to do with 1) my age and 2) my credentials.

What I'd like to know is, of you guys doing it full-time or at least getting a lot of your income from it, what kind of credentials (college degrees, internships, etc.) do you have?

My reason for asking is this: I gave a big recital on flute a month ago that really impressed my flute professor and a few other profs, and she said she would love to continue teaching me. I really enjoy learning with her. Anyway, things progressed and I've been offered a grad assistanceship and a $4000/semester stipend, with the possibility of another $1000 or more per semester music-based scholarships. But the school is not a big name or anything.

But does that matter? Will having a Masters in music performance affect my goals of being a full time recording engineer? Would I be better off getting a degree in some type of recording-based program? Or should I just find a day job and keep building my business until I'm getting all of the business? I know that my area could support a full-time recording guy but probably only 1 or 2, and therefore I have to kind of muscle out some small-timers (this is a whole other discussion).

Anyway, my friends/family think it's a no-brainer but I'm still struggling with this decision.

I guess my big question is, would a Masters in Music Performance really help me in recording???

[NorseHorse]

Do you want to continue performing?

If so, why not continue with performance while recording? Are they mutually exclusive?

One thought is that it might be more beneficial to go to another school in the state for flute (new contacts). Staying at at your current school won't open up any new doors for you recording-wise.

[Corran]

I do really enjoy performing. But I have doubts I'll ever be good enough to land a performing career.

Of course recording and performing are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but I'm not sure how much I'll be able to record while getting this masters degree. I'm hoping my assistanceship job will be to run the recording department, recording all the recitals going on in the music department.

I also agree about going to another school possibly opening up new contacts but the trick with this is that the grad assistanceship + stipend/scholarships will make the degree completely free, or I might even have some money left over.

Thanks for the thoughts Norse. Keep 'em coming.

[Chris Wilson]

If you want to stay in academia, then yes, degrees up the ying-yang are the way to go.

In the "real world" I definately encounter more working muaicians with one degree than two or three.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Corran

I guess my big question is, would a Masters in Music Performance really help me in recording???

In what way? Help you make better recordings because of even better understanding of the music (you seem to be quite proficient already), or help you get more customers because your adverts will contain said degree?

And would you really consider it possible/likely that you could make a living for yourself (and who knows, maybe a family) out of recording mostly amateur ensembles etc., not only for a few years, but on a long term basis? Sooner or later, some young gun will come up offering similar services, and so on - it's been discussed here.

Alternative (and if possible, regular) income is certainly something you should look at - music performance, or a day job...

Daniel

[Uncle Russ]

I would approach the question from a slightly different perspective if you don't mind:

Acoustic music owes a large part of its survival to colleges and universities. Fewer opportunities exist today outside the academic environment. So if I wanted to earn my living as a musician or as someone who records music and wanted to give myself the best chance to pursue it full time, I would get whatever degree was necessary to find full time work at a college. I would then use that leverage, if necessary, to move into whatever area I preferred (assuming I could either create or find the kind of work I want). In other words, any music job for a musician (or recordist) is better than a non-music job. And you might be better off teaching and recording music in school than being a lawyer and trying to find time to record chamber music between deadlines.

Everyone I know who took the academic approach is more involved in music than those who earn a living doing something outside of music. In my field, jazz, most full time musicians work in colleges that encourage them to take gigs on the outside. Their incomes may be less than stellar but they don't have to split their focus (or time or socializing) between music and something else. And, as a result, they have a slight edge.

[Corran]

d_fu, yes I am looking at the possibility of having said degree to get more customers (or as "proof" that I know something about music). And I know that conventional wisdom says that living off recording of amateur groups is at best unlikely, but from some thought and conjencture I think it might be possible here, doing some things a little differently (and lots of marketing). You are right about a possible non-recording job, and I suppose a job in academia might be appropriate.

Which brings us to Uncle Russ' thoughts. Good points. I wouldn't mind getting a position at a college, if possible. A Masters of course paves the way for that (or more likely a Doctorate) so I suppose this would be the way to go.

Thanks for the thoughts so far guys.

I'm leaning towards doing it, if at least to float another two years so that the economy can work itself out (hopefully). Part of me wants to be done with school after getting the first degrees though.

[jnorman]

bryan - i did a triple major in electrical engineering, music theory, and radio/tv production while i was an apprentive at deep south studios. i dont think additional education in performance will assist your recording career - building up your experience, client base, and word of mouth advertising will...

btw, my wife is a flute teacher, and knows pretty much everybody in that universe - who is your flute professor, and what colllege were you at in georgia?

[Corran]

That's what I thought, that a performance background wouldn't help. But still, it would be a higher music degree which means I supposedly know something about music and therefore know what it's supposed to sound like and therefore record. Or that is my thought at least.

I graduated from Valdosta State - she might not know my teacher but she will know my teacher's teacher - Thomas Nyfenger

[resound]

Some thoughts:

If you like learning about music and having focused time to be immersed in any/all aspects of music, consider staying in school.

If your offer included a tuition wavier so that you're not spending any money and at least have some cash coming in from your assistantships, consider staying in school. Needless to say the "day job" market sucks for many right now, regardless of vocation and background. There's nothing wrong with riding out the downturn if you can; just be smart about it and make sure it's not a net money loser.

Better performance chops can help you get gigs that pay: weddings, church services, etc.. Even if it's not your true love, getting paid makes you feel good.

Having a solid performance background could help you establish better rapport with certain clients in that they may find it easier to relate to you if they acknowledge you as a fellow artist and not some tech person to be wary/dubious of.

Many practicing musicians have several degrees. Students move between institutions as they "trade up" teachers and make it into better connected and more prestigious studios. A MM (or multiple MMs) is neither a panacea nor a stigma, despite some of the anti-academic positions that are voiced on GS now and again. Plain and simple, time spent seeking a degree can help you expand your network of contacts and marketable skills. All in all a good thing, though to more limited effect since you'll be remaining in the same institution you completed your undergrad degree at.

A Master's will be the bare minimum to get adjunct status and teach lessons in most colleges depending on the area. These days, most of those gigs go to DMAs, too. It's just a matter of supply. The MM could help you get your foot in the door at a college, but the adjunct life sucks: near minimum wage and no benefits. Fewer and fewer schools are investing in regular faculty so those positions are getting harder to find. If you entertain a thought of seeking that type of position, barring skills par excellence and a serious reputation, you'd need to commit to the long haul through various additional degrees.

In the end, it certainly won't hurt but it may not be a direct help to your recording career. The payoff would likely be in the intangibles.

[NorseHorse]

Follow the money trail!

If they're willing to pay for it, GO FOR IT!

Unless you really can't stand flute anymore. That's just about where I'm at with papers.

To answer your question more specifically, I'm not sure it would directly aid your recording, but working towards a degree might be preferable than working a "day job" and you would continue to be immersed in the scene.

[Corran]

To clarify: yes I'm being offered a tuition waver PLUS the hopefully about $10000 a year in assistanceships/scholarships.

Thank you for your suggestions resound. Excellent points.

And as you say Norse, a couple years in college is better than a "day job" and in fact will pay me probably about the same. I'm thinking I'm going to do it.

So much for an end of school! And yes I do enjoy playing flute a lot. I am just more of an ensemble player than a soloist. If only professional wind ensembles would catch on! I am so sick of orchestras being the only professional playing position around (there's only 2 flutists! and 1 piccoloist! I'm more a piccoloist).

[bove]

Originally Posted by Corran

would a Masters in Music Performance really help me in recording???

Absolutely.

[Chris Wilson]

Originally Posted by Corran

To clarify: yes I'm being offered a tuition waver PLUS the hopefully about $10000 a year in assistanceships/scholarships.

Are you kidding? Of course you should go if it's paid for! If you really want to have kids right away than maybe it's not a good idea. Other than that, you have your whole life to work, why hurry?

[rumleymusic]

I have a composition degree, and it has helped alot in putting me ahead of the competition as far as perception by classical performing organizations. People want engineers trained in classical music recording and editing their classical music. And with good reason.

I recently did a mastering job where a classical mandolinist had a compilation of works that he wanted on CD. One track was recorded localy with the $150/hr "top guy in town." The recording sounded cool, if you want a classical mandolin to sound like an amped Les Paul guitar. We both agreed it was utterly unusable.

I'm not saying non classically trained (or classically experienced) engineers would be completely clueless recording classical music, but it is a little more likely they would be.

[Daniel Stark]

i agree looking at different schools is a good idea

connections! are mostly the logic behind that one

if your heart isn't in flute performance then your time might be better spent elsewhere.....a master's there is good for teaching but not for recording. i doubt having a performance degree would really help you that much from an engineering perspective

that said they are offering you a sweet deal but from what i know getting a masters in performance it really matters where you go and who you study with

good luck!!

[Corran]

Thanks for the continued replies. There is some conflicting opinions but I will say for certain that there are both pros and cons to it. I think Chris Wilson said it best - what's another two years? I'm still young after all.

[joelpatterson]

Also, Bryan, keep this in mind: no one of us knows you like you do-- none of us are in your situation with your talents and the opportunities you are blessed with. Or know precisely what combination of things it would take to keep you inspired and forging ahead in spite of all odds. I'm very reluctant to encourage anyone to do what I did (dropping out of college, hitting the road, wandeing where the winds of fate blew me.) It worked for me, at the time, but the glorious results of my mis-spent youth certainly were not pre-ordained and I'll admit it was extremely foolish.

To listen to me, you would do whatever improvisational thing seemed like the coolest, most impulsive thing that came along.

[Corran]

Point taken Joel. But I was interested to see if people thought a certain level of education might help get more work. Since a lot of engineers have a background in music of some form or another.

[ghellquist]

Well, I am on the other side of the pond (Europe) so maybe things work a bit differently here.

In my experience the best place to search for a job is if you already have one. I would expect you to be better off from inside a musical education to get contacts than out in the cold on a daytime job. If you are inside the school you could probably work on honing your skills at recording as well -- lots of subjects to test on at least.

Maybe you could find a veteran around that will allow you to tag along as "goofer" and gain experience.

// Gunnar

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by Corran

I'm faced with a difficult decision and I want some opinions from you guys since it has something to do with recording.

I guess my big question is, would a Masters in Music Performance really help me in recording???

It is my personal opinion that a masters is only worth while if it is with one of the top studios such as J. Baxtresser or the like.

[Corran]

Well I don't think I'll be getting into her studio. I've got a lot of technical ability but my tone quality is somewhat lacking. I'm improving though.

And as for being a "gopher," I'm not sure that's what I'm looking for when I've already been doing this for 4 years now...


I appreciate everyone giving me some opinions here. I am not 100% on anything but I don't think it would hurt to persue this. I won't have to get any loans or anything. Maybe it'll help, maybe not. We'll see.

[klaukholm]

If you are going for a masters, you owe it to yourself to have a few studios to choose between.

Don't be shy, you never know what a teacher is looking for.

Does Mathieu Dufour teach at DePaul or Northwestern?

He may not be an experienced teacher yet, but he is a musician at a level that must rub off on some level.

I do feel that if you study performance, you should only be in it if you are aiming for the top. Orchestral life in the US is rough at the moment even if you have employment.

Have you considered an EE degree?
A good friend of mine who is principal in montral got his degree from Johns Hopkins in physics. He took lessons from the best teachers on the side.
As a result he can always get employment outside of music should that be necessary.

Maybe you can travel to chicago and take lessons from Mathieu, Houston for Leone Buyse, etc.
Build your musicianship that way, practise 3-4 hours (5-6 including breaks) and you have the rest of the day left for school.

[Corran]

Good points. I can tell you I'm definitely not aiming for the top. And I wouldn't mind getting an EE degree. Physics is actually a hobby of mine. I read a lot of physics books and was the only person in a physics class in college to make an A in a class full of physics majors (?!).
Argh!

[Thomas W. Bethe]

First the need for classical music recording as a profession is going down not up. More and more orchestras are having financial problems and the first place they tend to cut is in the recording area. Chamber groups and small ensembles or specialty ensembles are also having problems making ends meet and more than likely the first place they choose to save money is in recording. They either decide to do it themselves or they find a local NPR station to do their recordings for free. If you enjoy music and are good at it I would tend to stay within academia. Trying to make a decent living at doing classical recording and editing on the outside is going to be very tricky especially in today's economic climate. You will probably make more money at a college and your employment will be more or less assured. At the local conservatory of music they have a full time department that just does recordings of the 365 concerts a year. It is run by a professional audio engineer who is also a musician. Most colleges and universities have full time staffs to do the recording of concerts and recitals and they work a consistent work schedule and get paid well. Some schools still have students or part time persons doing the recordings but this is changing.

Best of luck and let us know how this all comes out,

[Corran]

Does the full-time recording guy have a degree in recording? Or some type of related field?I would love to run a recording department or teach music technology at the collegiate level but do I have to have a degree in that area? Or does my experience cover that?

By the way, another factor in my decisions is the fact that I have a fiancée in the same college who will be completing her degree in 2 years.

[matyas]

My degrees are in composition and musicology. I have no idea if that's helped me get recording gigs - I actually kind of suspect not, but it certainly hasn't hurt. My advice to you is not to get the master's if you're not really interested completely in a performing career. $10,000 for an assistanship is actually not that good. My grad assistantship was quite a bit larger, and some of my friends at other schools were making more still than I was.
I also think you may have a hard time keeping your recording work going if you're in a performance program full-time. The demands of grad school are as different from the demands of undergraduate education as undergraduate programs are from high school. As Kjetil mentions, if you're in a performance program, you're expected to practice 5-6 hours per day. This is on top of the demands of classes, ensembles, and whatever else you do. If you've got an assistantship, you'll probably be teaching. It's not impossible - when I was doing my master's in composition, I managed to do quite a bit of freelance live sound work - but I think performance is another matter.
I'll echo the previous suggestions: if performance is what you want to do, and your teacher thinks you can cut it, try to get it into a different school. Aside from issues of prestige and name recognition (which counts for quite a bit in the music world), you might be able to score a better deal with regards to an assistantship and make some more connections. Just getting a different teacher's perspective can be invaluable. However, I'll say that if there's the slightest bit of hesitation on your part over whether or not you should be going for the performance degree, you probably shouldn't do it. The performance world is full of people who need to do that and nothing else. If you're not one of those people, find something else (like recording!) to do before you drive yourself crazy.
P.S.: Once upon a time, I thought I wanted to be an oboist. Then I realized that it was music in general - composing, listening, recording, music theory, musicology, conducting - pretty much everything other than playing the oboe - that I loved. Could I have been a decent oboist? Probably. Could I have stood to practice Tombeau de Couperin ad infinitum? No, mixing consoles and microphones were far more interesting in the long run.

[Corran]

Yeah I hear you. I know they aren't paying me a million dollars but it's enough to live on, and I won't be teaching at all. I might be running the recording facilities in the department supposedly.

And I'll re-emphasize that I am not interested in playing full-time, I want to record, which is why I was getting opinions on if it would help to have that "qualification."

I'm so conflicted.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Corran

And I'll re-emphasize that I am not interested in playing full-time, I want to record, which is why I was getting opinions on if it would help to have that "qualification."

Eventually, that depends on whether this degree will impress potential customers - not something I believe anyone can tell for sure.
But since such a degree might open doors for you e.g. in case full-time-recording proves to be financially insufficient, I would go for it.

[klaukholm]

In my experience, papers from a performance school impresses absolutely no one regardless of the institution.
The only reason to go to the big studios is that you learn more there.

If you can show you have worked with top orchestras as a player, then you get some credibility, but it is not until you have held a tenured posision one or more places that you start getting actual credibility on paper.

My advice is to always be sceptical about the institutions, they are often not looking out for you. Often it is more important to have a full decent class, and irrelevant if the whole class is destined for unemployment.

Just know what you are walking into, consider the future and look out for your own interest.