Did Green Day just lip sync on SNL?

[Johnkenn]

Or was that the most perfectly in tune live vocal by a human ever executed? I call lip sync...

[voicegenius]

Might be Autotune... Wouldn't be surprised...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

Or was that the most perfectly in tune live vocal by a human ever executed? I call lip sync...

Obviously you didn't stay tuned to see them do 21 Guns did you. Sounded like a different band. I don't think anyone would be wondering if the vocals were live or not on that song. Pretty badly out of tune. The first song sounded and looked like they were playing to tape. The drums sounded completely beat detectivized as well as the vocals not sounding live.

[chrisrnps]

Wait - someone with years and years and years of practice, two first-call session musicians, expert drum and guitar techs, a top-notch crew, and a great in-ear mix can pull off two basic, straightahead pop-punk songs live and sing mostly in tune most of the time?

Inconceivable!



Much more importantly, there's no way Will Ferrell is that tight on the maracas.

He HAD to have used that secret version of Beat Detective that works on live video.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by chrisrnps

Wait - someone with years and years and years of practice, two first-call session musicians, expert drum and guitar techs, a top-notch crew, and a great in-ear mix can pull off two basic, straightahead pop-punk songs live and sing mostly in tune most of the time?

Inconceivable!



Much more importantly, there's no way Will Ferrell is that tight on the maracas.

He HAD to have used that secret version of Beat Detective that works on live video.

"So you think you're smart?"

"Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?"

"Yes"

"Morons"

[feck]

Both songs sounded pretty good to me. The acoustic song was a bit more "rough", but still tight. Jeez, give a band a break - after just releasing a 4 year record, going on SNL.... jitters are to be expected! If you want to see a singer who never sings an off key note, watch some Martin Sexton. For some rock and roll, Green Day is the real deal as far as I am concerned.

[ButchP]

I only heard bits of the 2nd tune but on the first one BJ wasn't even close to playing the rhythm parts.It looked so odd I just thought the video /audio was out of sync.I can understand some bands synchin but GD ...theys be rock n roll ...right????..... tutt

BP

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by ButchP

I only heard bits of the 2nd tune but on the first one BJ wasn't even close to playing the rhythm parts.It looked so odd I just thought the video /audio was out of sync.I can understand some bands synchin but GD ...theys be rock n roll ...right????..... tutt

BP

The network doesn't care how rockandroll they are. They need a quality broadcast. I would be stunned if the primetime spot was NOT synced.

[audiovisceral]

no lip sync or autotune imo. just a decent performance, which is rare these days. vid/audio sync does seem perhaps a bit sloppy as well, but that's not green day's fault.

YouTube - Green Day - "Know Your Enemy" on SNL 5/16/09 (TheAudioPerv.com)

[dbbubba]

A few things that make me wonder if it was live or lip sync / playback or just plain "not all live."

1.) BG vocals are WAYYY to accurate for two dudes playing live (especially bass players higher parts)
2.) Lack of ANY cymbal bleed with three vocal mics across the front.
3.) The mix does not sound like a band on a TV studio soundstage (ie. NO ambience and that is what you always fight the most!)

I have mixed an awful lot of live rock-n-roll and a lot of live broadcast mixes of similar bands set up on stages like that.
There is almost no way to get that degree of control.
There would just be more band / intrument "wash" in the vocal mics.
You just can't get gates to open on vocal mics that accurately.

One interesting mix point is when the one GTR (the other guy and not BJ) plays alone after the bridge @ 2:24.
The band drops out and there is the lone GTR, but notice how long it takes for the GTR to come up fully in the mix.
It doesn't sound like compressor recovery which sometimes happens on TV / broadcast mixes. It is too slow and sounds like someone riding a fader.
So, if it was pre-recorded why was that fade so slow?

I dunno.... stuff sounds so bizaar once run through the broadcast chain that it is hard to tell.

It sounds 'NOT LIVE" to me.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

A few things that make me wonder if it was live or lip sync / playback or just plain "not all live."

1.) BG vocals are WAYYY to accurate for two dudes playing live (especially bass players higher parts)
2.) Lack of ANY cymbal bleed with three vocal mics across the front.
3.) The mix does not sound like a band on a TV studio soundstage (ie. NO ambience and that is what you always fight the most!)

I have mixed an awful lot of live rock-n-roll and a lot of live broadcast mixes of similar bands set up on stages like that.
There is almost no way to get that degree of control.
There would just be more band / intrument "wash" in the vocal mics.
You just can't get gates to open on vocal mics that accurately.

One interesting mix point is when the one GTR (the other guy and not BJ) plays alone after the bridge @ 2:24.
The band drops out and there is the lone GTR, but notice how long it takes for the GTR to come up fully in the mix.
It doesn't sound like compressor recovery which sometimes happens on TV / broadcast mixes. It is too slow and sounds like someone riding a fader.
So, if it was pre-recorded why was that fade so slow?

I dunno.... stuff sounds so bizaar once run through the broadcast chain that it is hard to tell.

It sounds 'NOT LIVE" to me.

One thing I noticed regarding the BG vocals was the fact that there was a dude off to one side of the drummer singing as well. Wouldn't be surprised if most of the bgv's were coming from him. The song did sound a little too good for live tv though.

[soundsundergroun]

you guys are funny. This is live. Green Day always sounds this good live. It just happens to be mixed REALLY well for live on SNL.

Watch other Green Day vids on you tube for further proof.

Bands that sound good live actually do exist.

[henge]

What makes me think it's live is the feel of the 2nd guitarist when the band drops out. He's pulling the feel back to stay with a click. If it was prerecorded that woulden't happen.

[IntelDoc]

I don't know guys.. I thought so too at first that they sounded amazing... thought it was a Lip Sync thing too but I think that Green Day is a better band than the typical "Simpson" rehash..... I saw their HD show that highlighted all their greats and it was spot on...

I personally think that they are good enough performers that it was just tight....

The second song BJ did seem to look like he was frustrated in hearing some pitch issues....

I do think that the drums were (or maybe) triggered as they had the exact sound of the record to my ears...

Either way it was a great show....

"Catch the "se" "men" for 800... Trebek" Killed me......

Doc

[dbbubba]

You can't watch the sound and video sync in the current world of digital TV production and determine 100% what is live and what is lip-sync'ed.

I sat on a show with five broadcast video guys (a switcher, a playback roll/recordist and three camera men) for the last week and we discussed the issues with digital TV sync during breaks on at least two occasions.

With current technology the processing in digital imaging causes all kinds of sync issue that were never a huge problem in the analog days.
It will be ironed out at some point in the future, but it IS there!

With a broadcast HD video camera costing close to one million dollars the networks and everyone else are taking small steps.
The signal path(s) are being upgraded slowly.
With the recession even the networks are spending money carefully.
As an example: there are some broadcast HD cameras that are NOT available in the U.S. to anyone EXCEPT for the networks because there are only so many being built and the networks get the first call when the equipment is built.

Still, that performance wasn't 100% live IMHO.
I have just known too many players and mixed too much live music to not know what is possible and what isn't.
Something seemed "too good."

[AllAboutTone]

Damn I missed it.....I was watching a movie.

[zzfdvz@mac.com]

Tre's tempo at the flamming section around 2:00 to the tacet part at 2:35 are no so hot...sketchy it would be pre-recorded

Also, Tre does not have any in ears to feed him a click. Watch at the end of the video where he runs off the set. He never pulls anything out of his ears and when he goes close, definately nothing in them. No click = no sync to play to prerecorded tracks. (unless i'm really missing something about playing to a click live)

Just look at the "session" dudes they have...I'm sure that backing singer in the far right probably has perfect pitch, and that you probably NEVER actually hear BJ's guitar until the other dude breaks for his solo. Any other changes in tone are probably all A/B/Y stuff from the other guy.

They're just a band that's been around for like 15 years playing 3 chord pop-punk/radio-rock stuff...how bad can they suck at this point? BJ sounded good on records before autotune ruined the world, and Tre's always been pretty legit.

[RCM - Ronan]

Originally Posted by feck

If you want to see a singer who never sings an off key note, watch some Martin Sexton..

Martin is so awesome!! I produced some stuff for him years ago. I have worked with some of the greatest musicians in the world and Martin right right at the top of the heap.

[Johnkenn]

The second song was obviously live, but that first one sounded like the studio and didn't have a live feel. Put it this way - that's some mighty in tune vocals for a punk band...if it was live, I would be impressed - or frightened that singers are starting to sound naturally like they're autotuned...

[quincyg]

seemed live to me. wasn't the second song "do you know the way to san francisco'"?

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by henge

What makes me think it's live is the feel of the 2nd guitarist when the band drops out. He's pulling the feel back to stay with a click. If it was prerecorded that woulden't happen.

True, I caught that to.

I think there were partial backing tracks (or some voice tuning help) Something was to perfect with the backing vox.

Maybe 90% live 10% help Whatever, to the common folk it would've been undetectable.

Anyway, the overall performance was very good...

Don't look behind the curtain...

[TheRealRoach]

I think it was live.

80% of the damn verse is the same two notes that happen to be right beside eachother. The chorus is just a descending scale starting from the tonic... not difficult to execute.

I would hope that after nearly 15 years of worldwide success he could sing a tune like this.

Edit: Here's a video from 1996 YouTube - Green Day "Walking Contradiction" & "Going To Pasalacqua" a much more difficult tune to sing live and he's hitting it pretty good here. Their older tunes slay their new stuff.

[audiovisceral]

Originally Posted by TheRealRoach

I think it was live.

80% of the damn verse is the same two notes that happen to be right beside eachother. The chorus is just a descending scale starting from the tonic... not difficult to execute.

I would hope that after nearly 15 years of worldwide success he could sing a tune like this.

ya no shit huh?

haven't any of you been to a decent rock show before?

the only help is as pointed out you can see at least one other background singer off to tre's side and there's the added backup guitar player who's probably also awesome doing harmonies too. big deal.

as for the drums sounding 'sampled', look how hard he's wailing that snare. it's standard modern drumming style. the guy from paramore (and the drummers from countless other current bands) hits the same for the same sound. it's just a playing technique.

[brill bedroom]

Sounds like a live rock band to me. The backing vocals weren't all that 100% in tune. It sounds about right to me with all the shows these guys have under their belts.

[Mike Brown]

Live to a click track.

Fo Sho.

[personpitch]

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

The network doesn't care how rockandroll they are. They need a quality broadcast. I would be stunned if the primetime spot was NOT synced.

YouTube - Fleet Foxes "Mykonos on SNL"

[Slikjmuzik]

I think this was live. The ringers playing bass and the keyboard player are helping make this live peroformance sound like what it sounds like, plus the drummer is definitely hitting those cymbals and Billy Joe's mic is definitely on. Gating takes care of that. Also, when my band opened up for Vince Neil about a year ago here in Palm Beach, the lead guitarist and bass player were using some kind of crazy old school SPX90 shit on their backup vocals that gave them that perfected '10 people around the mic' type of sounds. They were the most amazing backup vocals I had ever heard so to say this is too good to be real, I disagree. This is a I-IV-I-IV song with an occasional V thrown in, Billy Joe's melody stays pretty much within a 4th of an interval as most of his songs do, why would this be unbelievable for someone to do...they have been out forever doing the same tried and true music that millions seem to love, they better have it right by now!!...and especially with help on stage, a great sound system and live feed, what looks like L-acoustics which are amazing live floor monitors lying on the ground across the entire front row...I believe this is real.

[Silver Sonya]

The nature of Green Day's easy, angular, laser-pointer melodies is that it's easy to hit those pitches.

The guy's voice is like a trumpet or something. It's incredibly straight.

- c

[Zooben]

Funny stuff you guys...

I was there at SNL in the control room and can assure you that there was no lip syncing, click tracks, autotune, or magic. There were 5 engineers in the room during the dress rehearsals and the live performances, myself, Butch Vig, Kevin Lemoine (FOH), Jay and Joe (SNL).

The BG vocs sounded great. The first song has 3 people singing background, two high one low. There are four people singing background on the second song. Two singing the high part and two singing the low.

Definitely no click, that should be obvious.

We did battle like crazy to keep the cymbals out of Billie's mic, it was d'essed and Kevin rode the fader anytime he was off it.

I thought it was a great show! They stayed after and played two more song for the crowd. It was a great night.. I got to meet Will Ferrell!

[Everyman]

Absolutely live, with no click, let alone BD. I just watched it, and I don't know how there could be any doubt at all. You can hear proximity effect coming and going on the vocal mics, to say nothing of hearing the stage sound in everything. It sounded great, it was played great, and there were 4 singers on stage. Kudos to the engineers and the band.

I am not 100% convinced that Autotune was not used on Billy Joe, though, because I heard a tell-tale lurch in the first verse. Might have just been a weird vocal artifact, which happens sometime, but it's also possible that it was a product of (very) gentle tuning.