Choir paradise

[Mats H]

Hi guys and gals,

For your enjoyment, this is a recording I made today at a female choir concert. Schoeps MSTC64 into KORG MR-1000 @ DSD 5.6 MHz. Just a little limiting after 44.1 conversion in Audiogate. And a lot of car noise removal in Izotope RX.

Swedes will recognise this piece "Sommarpsalm" and for all others, the title is "Summer psalm". It's usually sung as the school semester ends for summer. My poor English means I can't translate the lyrics, perhaps someone can help me out here. I just love this piece!

Anyways, here you go!

http://www.livingsound.se/sommarpsalm.mp3

[d_fu]

Very nice sound, surprisingly present considering the size of the church and the distance from the choir.
You seem to use the same kind of mic stand and extension tubes (K&M?) I've got - but I can't quite clearly see it. Care to provide details?

[nightscope]

Originally Posted by Mats H

My poor English means I can't translate the lyrics

No need, mate. I don't speak a word of Swedish and get the message loud and clear. Simply beautiful. ns

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Very nice sound, surprisingly present considering the size of the church and the distance from the choir.
You seem to use the same kind of mic stand and extension tubes (K&M?) I've got - but I can't quite clearly see it. Care to provide details?

Hi,

Sure, I used a MSTC64 and put it on top of a K&M Choir stand that goes to 3,5-4 metres in three segments. Both borrowed from a good friend of mine. The church is nice for choir music and has quite a bright reverbation.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Mats H

K&M Choir stand that goes to 3,5-4 metres in three segments.

Well, here's something that I need to buy... Two, I guess...

[Ozpeter]

Very nice. Sounds like a pretty ideal acoustic (if it could be moved away from any roads!).

Is that a child in the audience right on the start? The little dear...

[Corran]

Nice!!! I can't wait to record a choir with my new Schoeps CMC64's. Though it probably won't be in a fantastic church like that.

Sounds great!

[ghellquist]

The stand is called K&M 260/8. Not in the catalogue though. A somewhat off market manager said that they did not sell very many of them, so they do not put them in the catalogue. Well, I kind of understand that not many are sold if they are not advertised. Only outlet I know of having them is this:
K & M 260/8 Körstativ - Ljus Ljud & Musik

Nice work as always Mats!

Gunnar

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

The stand is called K&M 260/8.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

Very nice. Sounds like a pretty ideal acoustic (if it could be moved away from any roads!).

I really wonder why they built all these nice chruches right next to busy roads...

Is that a child in the audience right on the start? The little dear...

I like small children - as long as they don't attend the concerts I record...

[phil.]

Very enjoybale! Thanks for posting this.

The sound of the church reminds me a bit of Matthaeuskirken in Copenhagen, where EMI used to record in the late 90's.

Great work! thumbsup

Phil.

[videoteque]

Sounds really nice, congrats!

Only thing I hear some low-freq activity that comes and goes, it may be the car-removal?? I have a new DIY subwoofer so now I finally hear low Hz!!!thumbsup

[Audiop]

Very nice!


/Peter

[Mats H]

Thanks for all the comments guys, the choir really performed well this concert. I'll tell them you liked it!

Originally Posted by videoteque

Sounds really nice, congrats!

Only thing I hear some low-freq activity that comes and goes, it may be the car-removal?? I have a new DIY subwoofer so now I finally hear low Hz!!!thumbsup

The low frequency probably comes not only from car activity and LF removal, but maybe also because of the DC offset fix. Strangely, my MR1000 recordings suffer from DC offset. I took care of that in the final mix. I've uploaded a newer version here.

http://www.livingsound.se/sommarpsalm2.mp3

And the baby is still there.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by d_fu

I really wonder why they built all these nice chruches right next to busy roads...

Most often the churches came first, the roads later.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Most often the churches came first, the roads later.

I guess that explains it...

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by d_fu

I guess that explains it...

This particular church opened it's doors for the first time in 1958. I usually record in a church from the 1620's... however I do like this one better. Nowadays I can just use Izotope RX to get rid of the unwanted traffic noise. I spent four hour doing that tonight... Damn I gotta get a life.

[RickZ]

I was very interested to see the comment about LF rumble on MR1000 recordings, as I have recently had a lot of thunder in recordings that was not present in the room. In the past couple of weeks I have used the MR1000 to record choral concerts with MKH8040 pair direct to MR1000, and an organ program with TLM103 pair, also direct to MR1000. Only the 8040 recordings suffer from the random thunder . . I'm baffled. I further tested whether this was an AudioGate issue, by setting MR1000 into play mode, and re-digitizing with Benchmark ADC1 at 88/24. The thunder was present in both AudioGate and ADC1 versions, ie in the original recording on the MR1000. My sub is the Sunfire True Subwoofer, capable of very low freq. reproduction.

Last clue . . the thunder seems to come in on quiet passages, esp beginning and end of pieces . . ? ?

Using a sharp cut-off rumble filter twice, seems to clear this off the recordings, making them still usable, but what the . . .

Any ideas would be welcomed.

Best regards,
Rick Z

PS Added info . . on one of my recent recordings I used both MR1000's, one connected to KM184 pair, and one to MKH8040 pair. The rumbling is substantially stronger in the 8040 recording, but still present in the 184 recording. Both mic pairs were on same stand. I doubled up, due to the gig being a bit more high pressure.
Also, I didn't hear any rumbling in the OP's original clip, sounded fabulous.

[RichS]

Originally Posted by RickZ

Last clue . . the thunder seems to come in on quiet passages, esp beginning and end of pieces . . ? ?

Sounds like a bad bearing in the organ's blower. It's under the most stress just before the organist plays or in quiet passages when the wind chests are most likely near maximum capacity. (Think blowing into an almost full balloon!) During normal passages, there's less "back-pressure" and the bearings get quieter.

I think you're hearing more rumble in the MKH8040 recording because that mic has better low frequency specs than the KM184.

[Audiop]

Rick,

may I ask what kind of decoupling you used for the mic's and stands?

I've experienced the MKH8040 being very sensitive for vibrations coming up the stand. The Rycote INV-3 I use is not enough to decouple so I will get some foam-rubber to place underneath the stand when I can not use a flying arrangement.

Even with INV-3 there's a night and day difference between MKH8020 and MKH8040 on the same stand.


/Peter

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Audiop

The Rycote INV-3 I use is not enough to decouple so I will get some foam-rubber to place underneath the stand when I can not use a flying arrangement.

Even with INV-3 there's a night and day difference between MKH8020 and MKH8040 on the same stand.

Make sure that the rumble is not coming up tha cable - I use a Rycote S-series XLR tail with all my InVisions. It goes from the mic. and a loose loop through the InVision's cable grip - I then plug my normal mic. cable to the far end of the tail. I have never noticed any handling noise problems at all.

[RickZ]

I've attached an audio clip of the rumble, during the wait for the concert to begin. This venue has concrete floor, which my mic stand is on. I can't say I've ever heard or felt anything at this venue. It was designed to be very quiet, double doors, silent air handling etc. That's always been my result recording there over the past 10 years. This rumble is new with 8040's and MR1000. As you can see from close-up of mics, I run GAC-3 cable right to the mics. I'd had a serious cellphone noise when using the Senn. remote cables, so have returned to using GAC-3 all the way.

John, what are the Rycote tails of which you speak, maybe they'd be better than the Senn. Remote Cables ? ?

Best regards,
Rick Z

[Corran]

Just a thought - running the cables straight up the shaft and then securing them with a strap seems like it might still get structure-born rumble. I always wrap the cables around the shaft to pretty much decouple them from anything below the mics. Even people bumping the stand I have never gotten anything. That seems somewhat un-scientific but it's worked for me.

[hughesmr]

It almost sounds like it could be wind noise to me .... were the mics in a spot where the ventilation system was moving the air around, even a little bit?

I've had this on EW omnis before in a space with pretty darned quiet air handlers .... never on cards, though.

[Corran]

Oh yeah definite possibility. I had that happen with my EW omnis as well a few months ago at an organ and choir recital. Barely noticeable. I forgot about that.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

The stand is called K&M 260/8.

Thanks again for that... K&M have a somewhat different nomenclature, but I was able to purchase two directly for € 120, which is ok... Very useful.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by RickZ

I've attached an audio clip of the rumble, during the wait for the concert to begin. This venue has concrete floor, which my mic stand is on. I can't say I've ever heard or felt anything at this venue. It was designed to be very quiet, double doors, silent air handling etc. That's always been my result recording there over the past 10 years. This rumble is new with 8040's and MR1000. As you can see from close-up of mics, I run GAC-3 cable right to the mics. I'd had a serious cellphone noise when using the Senn. remote cables, so have returned to using GAC-3 all the way.

John, what are the Rycote tails of which you speak, maybe they'd be better than the Senn. Remote Cables ? ?

Best regards,
Rick Z

The Rycote tails are thin and flexible - but so are the Sennheiser MKH 8000 remote cables. You just need to leave a nice loop so sound does not transmit.

Looking at your second picture, it looks like the cables are quite thick and would transmit noise to the mics from the stand. In this position I would use the mics in Rycote InVision mounts - loop the thin cable (S-series tail or remote cable, depending on how you mount) through the cable grip on the InVisions (leaving a loose loop) and then tie to the stand as you have done - I would then plug the norman XLR lead into the end of the S-series tail.

Thoough I would probably leave a slightly looser loop than shown on the attached pictures.

I hope this helps.

[phil.]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Thanks again for that... K&M have a somewhat different nomenclature, but I was able to purchase two directly for € 120, which is ok... Very useful.

Daniel, would you mind sharing the nomenclature you have for these.

Thank you!

Phil.

[d_fu]

26007-300-55 (tube) and 03-40-241-56 (round metal foot)


Daniel

[phil.]

Originally Posted by d_fu

26007-300-55 (tube) and 03-40-241-56 (round metal foot)

Daniel

Thank you!

Phil.

[phil.]

Originally Posted by d_fu

You seem to use the same kind of mic stand and extension tubes (K&M?)

Hi Daniel,

I remember you talked about these extension tubes before, 90cm, right?
Do you have a link for them somewhere, that I could show the distributor here in Japan.

Thank you!

Phil.