recording bands in video sync

[fabricaudio]

We are thinking to do the same thing, something like a making off or live recording video clip. But i think its to much effort to sync everything, they dont even do it at the movies sometimes. We will probably record the material with a camera and then edit the best scenes with music.


Nikolas

[esaias]

Originally Posted by bamb00

Hello,
I have a recording studio and I'm relitivley new to post production and need some help.
Our goal is to be able to record bands with multiple cameras as the bands perform to later use the footage for compiling a video for them.
I want to keep this as cheap and practicle as possible.
Were planing on buying a 4 camerea input pci card for the video computer with audio in as well. we hope to also use a decent cannon video camera i alredy have.
I'm using protools mpowered so smpte is not a possibility.
Would it work well enough to send the click track from the audio computer to a splitter then send to the video computers audio input and to the Cannon camera audio in. Or would it be better to use a metronom sent to all the audio ins.
Will problems arise fom different analog to digital conversion times between computers and the cannon? Or will the different adc times be small enough that it won't matter?
Does this sound like a workable system
If so can some one reccomend a decent pci card with 4 video ins as well as an audio in?
Thanks in advance for any help

This sounds all too complicated, don't over-engineer your setup. (and I think you are looking the whole thing from worng point of view )

Have cameras rolling on to their own tape/HD with their own audio, this audio will be used just for timing refence so quality doesn't matter.

Record the band like you would normally, if you're doing llive shows remember to have audience mics, best solution would be stage (ambience) mics and audience mics so you can choose which ever sound nicest.

Sync the recording to the camera footage by using the camera's own audio as a timing reference. Discard the camera audio when done syncing.

Cut the video remember that you don't have to follow the "music time" (sorry i can't think of better term), just use any footage that looks good (and fits the music time somehow). You can do alot of cheating with this


edit: and oh, forget the 4-way composite-in whatever PCI cards you see for sale, 99% of them are for surveillance and thus badquality/usuitable for this kind of application. And real braodcast stuff easily costs one's full year's salary

-Tomi

[bamb00]

Thanks for the replys.
I realize that the pci card won't be steller quality. some must be better than others though. I know the videos won't be of comercial quality. we'll have to go with low fi indi look.
What about sending the click track to the right side and the audio from the band to the L of the camera and pci card.
I think the click will help me as some muscians will be in quiet rooms wearing headphones rather far from the direct sound. We have a fairly sound proof rooms for the drums, guitar amps and vocals.
Thanks again for your responses

[esaias]

I am still wondering what you are trying to gain by having 4 cameras record in sync.
It is perfectably acceptable to have them rcording to their own casettes/HD, syncing video to recorded audio is not hard, really! It just lining up the audiowaveforms in the editor. Takes about minute or two of nudging things back and forth to get videoclips and audio in sync.

They do like this in real productions. Trying to record everything in sync in one go is just making things harder. You DO NOT NEED that in the situation you have described.

Sorry if I sound harsh, having a bit of flu here.

but seriously, ditch the 4-way pci card idea, just slap the cameras on tripods and press rec

If you have more details on cameras you use and the way you are going shoot, I can try to give some guidelines.

edit: sorry I just realized the headphone part. If the camera takes external audio, you could feed it with what the guy plays if you think it makes syncing easier.

-Tomi

[bamb00]

Don't worry about being harsh. I need some good advice here and your kind enough to give it to me : )
Something I didn't mention is I have 2 stand alone cameras that feed a bnc style video in and one Cannon hand held. I want to have 2 cameras in the main room (front and back) and a camera in the control room to catch all those cool flashing lights and me bobbing my head to the music. I already have an extra computer that's not being used so the only expence would be the pci card and cables.

Is there any adive available on a decent 2 or 4 channel pci video card with an audio in as well.

Esaias I don't mean to ignor your input about ditching the pci card but I need it for my 2 cameras.
Thanks again for your input

[rhumphries]

Originally Posted by bamb00

Don't worry about being harsh. I need some good advice here and your kind enough to give it to me : )
Something I didn't mention is I have 2 stand alone cameras that feed a bnc style video in and one Cannon hand held. I want to have 2 cameras in the main room (front and back) and a camera in the control room to catch all those cool flashing lights and me bobbing my head to the music. I already have an extra computer that's not being used so the only expence would be the pci card and cables.

Is there any adive available on a decent 2 or 4 channel pci video card with an audio in as well.

Esaias I don't mean to ignor your input about ditching the pci card but I need it for my 2 cameras.
Thanks again for your input

4 streams of video in realtime is a lot of data for a computer to manage. Even 2 is a lot. I too would recommend ditching the PCI card idea. What program are you planning on using to capture the multiple streams of video with anway? If you insist on trying to find something, check out someplace like Markertek.com; they have all sorts of useful gadgets. Or maybe something like Tricaster would do the trick for you

-Richard

[bamb00]

I realize that 2 channels of reasonable quality video is a lot of data transfer but I was hoping there was a card that could handle it instead of the CPU and RAM.
As for software to record the video streams I has hoping there is a card out there that comes with some basic software. The more I research the less it seems is out there unless I spend upwards of $1500.
Before I decide to buy another handheld video camera I want to exhaust every possibility as I want to make use of the cameras I already have.
Does any one have any sugestions of software that will record realtime video?

[Tabnetic]

while you seem really into the pci idea for some reason, i've done what you are trying to do, and what esaias and rhumphries have told you is the way to go.

good luck.

[bamb00]

ok. I'm convinced. keep it simple. If something was available it would be pretty cool but after researching more it seems that there's nothing available for cheap.
Thanks everybody for your help

[philper]

We do low budg concert videos fairly often. The normal method is to take whatever number of video cameras, usually DV, HDV or DVC Pro50 HD etc. get them all on the same frame rate, and get them all into free-run TC mode (so the TC generator runs whether the camera is rolling or not). The audio recording system should be clocked to a very stable clock source if at all possible so that any sync drift is only on the video side. What kind of clocking can be done depends on your audio interface--can it lock to SMPTE, WC, AES or SPDIF? Can you get ahold of something that makes a locked 48.000k clock? Anyhow, we do a rough sync with the cameras by everyone counting down and then pressing execute on the TC generator so they start with in a second or two of each other. This will at least get you into the ballpark syncwise in post. I usually tell filmmakers to keep rolling the whole time--fewer sync points that way. If you can have all the cameras shoot an old-fashioned clap slate then your post sync will be much easier, ditto if they turn on their onboard mics and record a scratch track. The video feeds are combined in Final Cut (usually), synced to each other into a multiclip with a scratch mix of the audio (usually sent to a camera). There are many advantages to this system over what you propose (4 cams to a single computer card) not least of which is that the cameras a free to move around to multiple positions, follow performers on and off stage, go out into the audience, and generally give you much more complete coverage than some cameras attached to tripods. With music on video, there is no number of angles, shots and thus cameras that is too many to make things interesting, and having the cameras untethered and mobile will give you a MUCH more interesting video than 4 non-roving cameras. You should find someone to edit this work before you start, and work out the shooting and syncing details with them.

Philip Perkins

[bamb00]

thanks for such a complete discription! Very interesting. Mabey I'll get a band member to move around with a camera to keep it interesteing
Thanks again every body. Much apreciated : )

[Bill@AudioVision]

I read your first post and I'm doing that very thing for a friend's studio. The bands want a "making of" video of the session, and the studio wants some material for website marketing. Anyway, I've tried to keep it REAL quick and simple. (And I am by no means a videographer!) I shoot the band as they are running the tune down - before any real serious takes with one DV 3-chip camera on a little Stedi-cam rig. I will shoot 3 or 4 takes with using available camera audio. Then, I will do one fixed take after the band is settled in, a general wide shot, and take a board feed for the audio.(I will replace that with final mix when available) I use this take as the master, and in my little Adobe Premier setup, lay the other takes on adjacent video tracks, and will look through those, for good places to cut. I sort of 'hand sync' things as needed, but have found little problem with cutting to other takes as long as the band is on a click or other solid time reference. Of course, they need to play the song fairly consistantly, too. I don't bother with TC, just not worth the extra trouble. I always shoot a good assortment of cutaway material - knob turning, meters moving, etc - to use when nothing else looks right. I know, it's not top notch production, but it's fine for the internet. I work on a lot of big dollar projects all the time and so it's fun to give back a little to those on a tight budget...and the bands are very grateful - "Yeah, that's way better sticking the camera on a tripod and running back into the scene to play the tune.."
Have fun!
-Bill

[philper]

Originally Posted by Bill@AudioVision

I read your first post and I'm doing that very thing for a friend's studio. The bands want a "making of" video of the session, and the studio wants some material for website marketing. Anyway, I've tried to keep it REAL quick and simple. (And I am by no means a videographer!) I shoot the band as they are running the tune down - before any real serious takes with one DV 3-chip camera on a little Stedi-cam rig. I will shoot 3 or 4 takes with using available camera audio. Then, I will do one fixed take after the band is settled in, a general wide shot, and take a board feed for the audio. I use that as the master, and in my little Adobe Premier setup, lay the other takes on adjacent video tracks, and will look through those, for good places to cut. I sort of 'hand sync' things as needed, but have found little problem with cutting to other takes as long as the band is on a click or other solid time reference. Of course, they need to play the song fairly consistanly, too. I don't bother with TC, just not worth the extra trouble. I always shoot a good assortment of cutaway material - knob turning, meters moving, etc - to use when nothing else looks right. I know, it's not top notch production, but it's fine for the internet. I work on a lot of big dollar projects all the time and so it's fun to give back a little to those on a tight budget...and the bands are very grateful - "Yeah, that's way better sticking the camera on a tripod and running back into the scene to play the tune.."
Have fun!
-Bill

Keeping things simple is good when simple is appropriate. No TC for a song length video is fine. Things will get very confusing in the post of a concert-length video w/o TC, since so many shots will look similar.

Philip Perkins

[bamb00]

Something I forgot to mention is our control room and one of our tracking rooms is on the main floor of our house and the 2 bigger rooms are in the basment.
It would be great to be able to see into the bigger drum room so if there is a guitar or vocal up stairs they can see the drummer also for me to keep track of mic movement.
I've down sized my original idea of a pci card with 4 camera ins to a pci card with 1 video in.
Any recomindations on a pci card with 1 video in as well as recomindations of software to use with the pci card.
As for using the footage for a music video I plan on having one of the band members use the hand held camera combined with the still camera on the pci card.
Thanks

[Bill@AudioVision]

Originally Posted by bamb00

Any recomindations on a pci card with 1 video in as well as recomindations of software to use with the pci card.
...

You might jump over to VideoGuys.com, They have a lot of info on video cards and software.
-Bill

[bamb00]

Thanks