cheapest decent 2ch line flash recorder (recording bats)

[Ibvee]

I'm looking for a cheap but decent 2ch flash recorder. No microphones needed, just a line-in. 44.1khz 16-bit minimum.

This is for my brother, who's one of the owners of a nature research company. Amongst other things they also do checks in research areas for bats. Every bat specie has it's own sonar sound. Of course the frequency areas of bats are way above the human hearing, but there are special devices which can either divide the frequency by 10, so 45khz will be transposed to 4,5khz, or just play the recorded sample slower, which works something like playing a 88.2khz file in 44.1khz mode. However certain species of bats cannot be identified on the spot, because the translated sound of some species are very alike. They have to record those sounds, in order to analyze them in a graph on a computer.

Of course they first have to be recorded. And because some bats can make sounds above the 150khz, a decent recorder is necessary.
They have used the Edirol R-09, and also my Olympus LS-10 (which I'm very happy with by the way). And although they liked the Olympus better than the Edirol, they didn't think they need that many features. The stereo microphones aren't necessary at all.
All that's actually needed is:
- a decent amount of memory
- USB
- a decent quality Line-in (not like most mobile phones for instance), preferably 3,5mm
- recording at 44.1/16
- something that's not very power hungry

The closest I came to this were the Yamaha Pocketrak 2G (199 euros) and the Tascam DR-07 (199 euros). However both still have quite some more features than necessary, so I was wondering if there isn't a more basic and cheaper option.

Thanks for the help!

[boot_me]

Hi, a friend of mine swears by the zoom h2. There are also some mods for it, to add line out...

regards

[Enginearing]

If your brother already owns an ipod, then this would be the cheapest option.

Belkin : GoStudio

memory capacity would be dictated by i-pod
USB interface
16/44.1 (records to the voice memo function of i-pod)
line in 3.5mm or
mic/line in combo XLR/Jack input
switchable gain on input
master level with LED
built in mics that you won't need.

i got one for Sh*ts and giggles and find it handy for taking board mixes, supplying reahearsal room takes etc.

tracks are stored with time and date details, and could later be labelled when syncing ipod via USB

it's got the specs your after and is a cheap option, though given the lack of track labeling ability until your i-pod is synced may be an issue for field work at least it logs them i guess.

[Ibvee]

Thanks for the help so far.

Unfortunately they are not the iPod-type people, and buying an extra iPod would make it more expensive than the other options.
But the belkin thing is pretty cool! I'll keep it in mind, perhaps they don't mind buying an iPod anyway

The Zoom H2 looks cool, but surround recording etc. isn't needed. It looks a bit complicated for the price, which makes me wary. Keeping in mind they will probably go to Africa next year for researching bat species in Gabon. Also, it will do a max of 4,5 hours on a pair of batteries. Where my LS-10 will go over 10 with a pair of decent batteries.
What does your friend say about the battery life and the build quality?

[Ibvee]

bump

[Fran Guidry]

Your inquiry got my curiosity up and this is what I found:

iKEY : iKEY-audio.com

Line in (on RCA jacks), volume control, 4 AA batteries, you plug in your USB storage device (thumb drive).

You can download a manual at the link above.

Fran

[John Willett]

How are they recording he bats?

You say 150kHz, but a 16/44.1 machine will ot record anything above 20kHz.

Even a 192kHz machine will not record anything above 96kHz - and even the best mics top out at 60kHz.

If you are recording from a "bat box" which uses microphones designed for ultra-sound and down-converts to auduble frequencies - then I would say that the Olympus LS-10 is probably the best option because of its small size and pocketability and extreme ease of use.

[desotoslo]

pcm-d50

line in, optical in, nice mics, huge battery life. even fancier is the pcm-d1. (Also+$1k over d50)

[Don S]

The M-Audio MicroTrack II is only about $275 USD (not sure how many euros) and sounds much better than it should at that price!

[Ibvee]

Originally Posted by John Willett

How are they recording he bats?

You say 150kHz, but a 16/44.1 machine will ot record anything above 20kHz.

Even a 192kHz machine will not record anything above 96kHz - and even the best mics top out at 60kHz.

If you are recording from a "bat box" which uses microphones designed for ultra-sound and down-converts to auduble frequencies - then I would say that the Olympus LS-10 is probably the best option because of its small size and pocketability and extreme ease of use.

John, in my first post I explained such a 'bat box', this is what we're using. I'm aware of the problems with recording things above 21kHz. When transposing a bat with a sonar of 150kHz it will be heard as 15kHz, bad MP3 recorders etc. will start giving problems in this area in my experience.
As I said I have an LS-10, which is very nice for this stuff. But it really isn't necessary to have a pair of decent microphones and to be able to record at 96kHz.
I figured a decent line recorder without this stuff could cost around 100 euro's. Buying 3 basic line recorders instead of 1 LS-10 is preferable in this case.

@Fran
That's a cool box! Sort of what we're looking for! I will check it out, see if it's easy to get in the Netherlands. Thanks!

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Ibvee

John, in my first post I explained such a 'bat box', this is what we're using. I'm aware of the problems with recording things above 21kHz. When transposing a bat with a sonar of 150kHz it will be heard as 15kHz, bad MP3 recorders etc. will start giving problems in this area in my experience.

Yes, sorry, missed that bit in your post.

Originally Posted by Ibvee

As I said I have an LS-10, which is very nice for this stuff. But it really isn't necessary to have a pair of decent microphones and to be able to record at 96kHz.
I figured a decent line recorder without this stuff could cost around 100 euro's. Buying 3 basic line recorders instead of 1 LS-10 is preferable in this case.

I wouldn't call the LS-10 mics "decent" - you can pick this up for about £230.

The reasons I suggested it are:

• Small and pocketable
• Very good build quality for the price and reliable in the field
• Very long battery life on a couple of AA batteries
• No special rechargeables that can let you down in the field
• Decent display so you can see what level you are recording at
• Very easy and smple to use level controls
• Internal 2GB memory
• Slot for SDHC card (I use an 8GB in mine)
• Padded case that keeps it safe in your pocket
• Internal folders for easy sorting so you can keep track of what you are doing
• Extremely easy to use by someone who is not experienced (Olympus make dictaphones for busy executives that *have* to be instintive to use)
• Very fast start-up from cold

The internal mics you can forget.

I did a lot of research before I bought mine - I wanted a cheap and pocketable recorder that was a carry-anywhere device (I already have a £5,000 pro. portable recorder) - I wanted it well-made (ie: not plasticky and easily broken) and I wanted it easy to use.

The LS-10 actually happened to be the cheapest (the others on my short-list were the Sony PCM-D10 and Edirol R-09HR - all the others seemed just too plasticky_.

What convinced me was just holding the LS-10 in my hand.

If you get anything much cheaper I'm sure you will be disappointed and find it not really up to the job. I really think that the LS-10 is about the cheapest to do the job you want (most wildlife recordists go much more expensive than this).

Another inexpensive goodie is the Fostex FR-2LE - no mics but at least 50% more than the LS-10.

Originally Posted by Ibvee

@Fran
That's a cool box! Sort of what we're looking for! I will check it out, see if it's easy to get in the Netherlands. Thanks!

It's a nice little box, but no level meters and you still need an external USB storage - though a USB memory stick may do. Biggest drawback is setting the record levels.


PS - you may find it helpful to talk to the Wildlife Sound Recording Society.

[Ibvee]

John, you don't have to convince me that the LS-10 nice stuff. I have one for a while now, and am pretty fund of it! Bought it on your recommendation, so I am convinced already

But these guys are pretty careful with their stuff, don't require a lot of features and just need something that makes recordings that don't make much problems when analyzing them.
Found this one SWISSONIC MDR-2 - Dutch International Cyberstore If I'm right Swissonic has a decent name (not sure though), but I figured it might be worth a try since it can record 44.1/16. I do realize it's a totally different leage as the LS-10 though. Anybody have any experience with this one? It could be the same design as the Fame HR2, since it looks almost the same...

@John (again ;P) Thanks a lot for the link of the wildlife recording society! thumbsup
And for the price I think the LS-10 mics are pretty good. You don't like them? How do you record with it then?
Your points on reliability and ease of use are true, I will discuss this with them.

[trent]

Personally, I find the Zoom H4n (As opposed to the earlier H4) the best bang for buck, and the internal mics (X-Y)have a sharper image than the LS-10... and slightly better mics...and I DO mean slightly.

But really there's not much between them, although I'm sceptical of the LS-10 stereo mic angle placement....

[jnicholl17]

I've been researching a similar problem.

I already have a mic and pre, so all I need is something that can record a balanced line level signal.

The catch is that I can't record directly to a computer. I don't own a computer quiet enough to have in the same room while making a low ambient noise, detailed recording. (classical guitar)

I own a Zoom H4, which I have been using for this purpose.

On the H4 the mics are fine (why I bought it), the headphone output I find to be quite good, it works great as an audio interface, the 4 track mode is neat, the tuner, metronome are really handy, etc...

It has a lot of positives when it comes to other uses, but it has noisy preamps on the line in. Even worse: the preamps CAN'T BE BYPASSED on the line in. There's only a three way switch, and none of the choices are "off"!

So, I need a recorder that can do a better job. From the specs I've been looking at (should have bookmarked the freq response, S/N pics!) the Korg MR1 seems to be the champion for low noise - high res line recordings at the top of my price range (only $230 at B&H). Not far behind is the Microtrack 24/96.

Of course, the Microtrack II could be even better, but from what I've been reading it seems that the Microtrack II added features but didn't really add much in the way of sound quality (though the analog limiter is supposed to be quite good... that may allow me to turn up the preamp a couple of decibles and get a hotter recording).

Anyways, my recommendations for a solution are, in descending price order:

1) Korg MR1
2) M Audio Microtrack II
3) M Audio Microtrack 24/96

If anyone has experience using these devices for making high res recordings from a balanced line in, I'd love to hear your input.