Student Requires Advice on Jazz Trio Recording

[Mickstape@MTP]

Hi this is my first post here so i`ll make it as concise as possible.

I`m currently doing a BA in Rec. Arts at SAE Sydney, i have a project coming up and i would like to record a jazz trio for the project. I have done a live recording of these fellas using one behrenger c2 small diaphragm condensor and my mbox in atrocius windy conditions (the location was on a lakeshore) and was quite pleased with the results. I now have the opportunity to record them in a studio and i am a little apprehensive on how to setup my mics and also what methods of gain structure to use with the sax/trumpeter.

The room dimensions are about 7x5x3 and are acoustically treated, the desk is a mackie dxb w PTools HD, i have a range of condensors and dynamic mics to select from. The guys are going to play together so i`m mainly concerned with spill from the two amp cabs and gain structure + mic choice with the sax.

My theory so far is to have the cabinets facing the walls and have them close mic`d as well as DI`ing them just in case. As for the sax player i was thinking about setting up a boom stand with the mic(a hypercardioid condensor plus an overhead dynamic) facing slightly to one side of the bell to eliminate woofing and pressure displacement. My main concern is the dynamic range of these instruments (brass/wind), im not big on riding faders and gain pots and dont really want to introduce any unnecessary processing to the actual recording (compression,gating etc).tutt

I have consulted a few of the audio supers and they have given me varying opinions on this topic. I have browsed thru the posts regarding this issue but they mostly seem centred on trios with drum kits whereas this trio is a bassist,guitarist and horn player.

If anyone could offer some tips i wold appreciate them.

Also i have attached a small snippet of the live recording, perhaps people could offer some criticism on it. It was recorded into logic and has no automation or processing other than a .3 dB cut on the master in.

Cheers

Mick

[cortisol]

Think more about the musicians. Would they be comfortable giving a performance with eye contact and wearing headphones or will you have to capture these guys as you would an acoustic ensemble?

There are plenty of options open to you depending on what approach you want to take. You can have a nice stereo overhead such as a Royer SF12 or SF24 and maybe a spot mic on the guitarist for boosting his solos a little and have the sax player move to a spot closer to the mics for his solos.

Or put the guitarists amp in the control room with the guys on headphones so that you can blend him with the other 2 fading him up a touch for his solo lines etc.

Just remember to take the approach based on what the musos are comfortable with and you can baffle off cabs and even the sax player and still maintain eye contact between the musos.

I like to decouple the speakers of the amplifiers off of the floor and baffle them when they are sharing a room.

Remember that a SDC with an omni pattern is a nice option for close micing as there is no proximity effect and any leakage into the mic will have a nicer off axis response to blend with the other mics if you are trying to capture the acoustic. Try a DPA 4060 or 4061. Or a nice figure 8 ribbon with the null pointed at the amps is also another very nice option on Sax.

For guitarists combo amp I really like micing with an SM58. Clean or semi clean sounds are really easy to capture and I think Steve Albinin is right in saying that any vocal mic would be good for clean guitar sounds.

Have fun,
cortisol

[trompetfreak]

I'd try to keep it as simple as possible.
For drums, I'd get an omni right in the middle of the kit. A dpa4006 usually does the job. This gives a natural sprankle to the drum-sound and brings the kick and snare a bit forward. And two (km140 or good omni's or ribbons when you're in a good room) overheads.
The bass wil need a good mic if it's accoustic. Try the MBHO side-adress LDC inside the bridge with two rubber bands. If you don't have one, A schoeps SDC will do fine... For both electric as accoutic, the DI will be needed to get the bass over the drums. Try a nice (aguilar, REDDI, Manley) tube di.
Guitar is great with a M88, or if you want a ribbon, get a Royer121...
For sax the DPA4021 is a cool SDC. For any horn (trumpet, sax, bone) LDC a TLM170 is magic. Aspecially on tenor! Flutes I do with a SM58 :-D

If they play live, a SDC ORTF in front of the band can do magic in setting up a mix and giving a live-feeling.


Watch your phase when positioning the mics, otherwhise you might need some of those little labs phase alignment tools :-)


Have Fun!

[RMJAZZ]

Hey Mick- Can you list some of the mics in your mic locker? It's great to dream of the best mics in the world, but if we know what you have to work with maybe we can be of more help to your specific situation.

All the Best,

Rob

[Alex Specht]

Originally Posted by cortisol

There are plenty of options open to you depending on what approach you want to take. You can have a nice stereo overhead such as a Royer SF12 or SF24 and maybe a spot mic on the guitarist for boosting his solos a little and have the sax player move to a spot closer to the mics for his solos.
cortisol

This sounds like a great idea!

Originally Posted by trompetfreak

I'd try to keep it as simple as possible.
For drums, .........

Read OP NO DRUMS

[Daniel Stark]

Keep it simple, just use a pair of mics and balance the band that way. Focus on getting the amps and sax in the right place and sounding good. Sax will not need to step forward for solos, you can hear it just fine over the guitar and bass.

The 1-mic-or-so per instrument is good too but leaves more room for error in both the tracking and mixing stage.