Nagra D advice - Plush and other experts chime in please!

[mosrite]

Hi guys,

I can get a Nagra D for a good price second hand. However, I a have a few reservations.

1. It is the original not the D II. I was hoping to integrate with my Neve 1073DPD and feed it a digital signal but I guess this is out of the question due to the 20bit nature of it?

2. Is the tape issue unresolved? Is it realistic to think I could just buy up enough tape so that it would never be an issue or is it essentially now a dead format with the decline of Quantegy etc and therefore an ongoing concern?

3. How did/do you guys tranfer the 4 tracks to your DAW? Is it just a case of sending out pairs of tracks via AES to your capture device?

4. It has over 1000 hours on it, is this a lot for a machine like this?

I am, like most other folks, lusting after the new VI but this used D would work out about a third of the price. Should I stop looking at the cheaper alternative and just jump on the VI or is this D worth serious consideration?

Thanks in advance,

[mpdonahue]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Hi guys,

I can get a Nagra D for a good price second hand. However, I a have a few reservations.

1. It is the original not the D II. I was hoping to integrate with my Neve 1073DPD and feed it a digital signal but I guess this is out of the question due to the 20bit nature of it?

2. Is the tape issue unresolved? Is it realistic to think I could just buy up enough tape so that it would never be an issue or is it essentially now a dead format with the decline of Quantegy etc and therefore an ongoing concern?

3. How did/do you guys tranfer the 4 tracks to your DAW? Is it just a case of sending out pairs of tracks via AES to your capture device?

4. It has over 1000 hours on it, is this a lot for a machine like this?

I am, like most other folks, lusting after the new VI but this used D would work out about a third of the price. Should I stop looking at the cheaper alternative and just jump on the VI or is this D worth serious consideration?

Thanks in advance,

The Nagra D was a wonderful machine in it's day, when compared with the Mitsubishi X86 it replaced. Truely a work of industrial design art.
However, today I would stay away from it like the plague. Each roll of tape will cost you $25 (If you can find it on 7.5" reels) and you need to load it into the computer in real (reel?) time for editing anyway.
For my money, one of the flash drive recorders or a decent laptop/interface is a far better investment. Cheap, reliable and readily available media are only the beginning. I can't tell you the problems that tape stock played with these machines back when tape was plentiful and good. Today I don't even want to think about it.
For a couple hundred bucks I would buy one just to put in a display case and admire, but that's about it.
(No Mark, tell me how you really feel....)
All the best,
-mark

[John Willett]

The Nagra D was a beautiful machine, as has been said.

I think the original was only stereo and it was only the Mk.II that went four track.

Yes, the Nagra VI is superb, but at a third of the price you can get the new stereo Nagra LB.

This is about the same price as the s/h Nagra D - so I think the LB is the much better buy for you.

Originally Posted by mosrite

I am, like most other folks, lusting after the new VI but this used D would work out about a third of the price. Should I stop looking at the cheaper alternative and just jump on the VI or is this D worth serious consideration?

The Nagra VI is well worth it - if you are lusting after it, go for it - I did and do not regret it at all. It's a superb machine and gets better and better with every firmware upgrade (v.1.51 now).

If it really is too much, then go for the LB - but,if you do, I think you will still hanker after the VI and it will end up more expensive this way.

I hope this helps.

[Teddy Ray]

You are essentially just using the nagra as a bit bucket, right? you aren't using the onboard conversion , no, nor the preamps?

if that is the case, why on earth spend that much money at all? If it just a data dump you need..

Just trying to wrap my brain around it.

[mosrite]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your responses, excellent info.

Mark, that is indeed the kind of strong opinion I probably need on this, so unless anyone can persuade me otherwise....

John, I hear you about the VI and indeed the LB but the D that I am looking at is indeed 4 channels, and 2 channels is definitely not enough for me (indeed 4 is even shy of what I really need but for the price difference between it and a new VI was seeing it as a bit of a stop gap)

Teddy, actually I would be using it's converters and preamps. The Neve unit might take up 2 of its channels with its own pres and ADC but the Nagra would deal with the other 2.

Regards the computer /laptop idea; I am not into it. I need a machine that is super stable, can be switched on and operational in dark busy environments and doesnt need a table etc to operate with. I guess this limits my options to a tape / hard disc or CF recorder.

A cheaper option would be the Edirol R4 Pro but I would be suprised if the line inputs or ADC would be of the quality of the old Nagra D or indeed of the quality that I require.

The Sound Devices are nearing the price of the Nagra VI so I dont see any point in considering them either.

The Alesis HD24XR machines would require essentially a mixing desk plugged into them to make them useful!

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Hey Guys,



Teddy, actually I would be using it's converters and preamps. The Neve unit might take up 2 of its channels with its own pres and ADC but the Nagra would deal with the other 2.

Ah, I see. Sorry for my misunderstanding. about the Alesis.. I had mine for about a month. It failed on me(once is all it takes), and I sold the thing immediately.

[mpdonahue]

Hmmm,
It looks to me like you're really looking for something like a JoeCo. No fancy features, just a simple recorder, analog in and out and a decent mic preamp.
I might be crazy, but it seems to me that you could do far worse than an ATI Preamp and the JoeCo recorder. ATI gives you the added benefit of a very decent 8 channel mixer to boot.
All this comes in 2 rack spaces with control room and headphone monitoring thrown in. Add a 2nd or 3rd ATI and your system expands accordingly and is still only 4u of space and the mixer is fully integrated. The whole thing connects together with 6 $10 cables (Hosa DCD-303) and you're off to the races!
Plus, it moves you up to the next level of production, which hopefully will let you charge a accordingly more for your services to boot!
Just some ideas to chew on.
All the best,
-mark

[mosrite]

Ah, I see. Sorry for my misunderstanding. about the Alesis.. I had mine for about a month. It failed on me(once is all it takes), and I sold the thing immediately.

So yo Teddy what do you use now? Dont tell me that Gefell have brought out a recording device

It looks to me like you're really looking for something like a JoeCo. No fancy features, just a simple recorder, analog in and out and a decent mic preamp.
I might be crazy, but it seems to me that you could do far worse than an ATI Preamp and the JoeCo recorder. ATI gives you the added benefit of a very decent 8 channel mixer to boot.
All this comes in 2 rack spaces with control room and headphone monitoring thrown in. Add a 2nd or 3rd ATI and your system expands accordingly and is still only 4u of space and the mixer is fully integrated. The whole thing connects together with 6 $10 cables (Hosa DCD-303) and you're off to the races!
Plus, it moves you up to the next level of production, which hopefully will let you charge a accordingly more for your services to boot!

That thing looks like a great idea. It does however look like a 1980's neon nightmare

I would also like to know the quality of the ADC and is there any indication of price anywhere???

[Plush]

I'm travelling with only a phone so forgive
My succinct answers. ND with over1000 hrs is worn
Out. No tape makes it a no go. Standard
Converters on machine were 18 bit-- any converter
Useable up to 48k. Above that it's
A 2 wire AES machine.
ND is still capable of very good sound. However it's a dinosaur.

The only match for the ND is the NVI. Computers and flash recorders
are not serious tools next to it.
NVI has the best converters and the
Best mic amps.

Best from NYC

[Dave Ferris]

Originally Posted by mosrite

That thing looks like a great idea. It does however look like a 1980's neon nightmare

I would also like to know the quality of the ADC and is there any indication of price anywhere???

Watching the NAMM video he mentioned $2500 US.

[fifthcircle]

Most of what I'd say has been said here already... The ND is a beast. Probably one of the most reliable recorders I've ever used. That being said, by today's standards, it can't do much The upkeep on them is rough and very expensive. At that head life, you'd probably do well to look at a new set of heads.

Of course, all of that is pretty much a waste because you'll have a heck of a time finding media for it.

Great recorder, but just past its time.

--Ben

[mosrite]

Thanks for all your info, you all talk sense and it has confirmed a lot of my reservations about the Nagra D.

The JoeCo is a great idea but it would have to have great ADC's for me to be interested and Im not convinced it's marketed at that end of the market. Why are there not more machines like this out there? Seems the manufacturers are missing a trick.

As for alternative to the Nagra VI, I was looking at the Sonosax SX-R4, it comes in quite a bit cheaper than the Nagra and gives more channels. Anyone seen this thing?

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Thanks for all your info, you all talk sense and it has confirmed a lot of my reservations about the Nagra D.

The JoeCo is a great idea but it would have to have great ADC's for me to be interested and Im not convinced it's marketed at that end of the market. Why are there not more machines like this out there? Seems the manufacturers are missing a trick.

As for alternative to the Nagra VI, I was looking at the Sonosax SX-R4, it comes in quite a bit cheaper than the Nagra and gives more channels. Anyone seen this thing?

I know someone who has one, I can get his contact info if youd like.

[Yannick]

I just went to the Joeco website and clicked on the AES IO option.

All I got was some webpage scanning my C:/ drive and my AVG virusscanner blocking it immiately : threat detected !!!

Nice...

If they can't keep their site together ...

[mosrite]

I know someone who has one, I can get his contact info if youd like.

Cheers Teddy, that could be helpful

I just went to the Joeco website and clicked on the AES IO option.

All I got was some webpage scanning my C:/ drive and my AVG virusscanner blocking it immiately : threat detected !!!

Nice...

If they can't keep their site together ...

I know awful site, awful branding/ logo, lack of information. Doesnt exactly inspire confidence in the product. Shame as it might be a very capable machine...