Good live tom mics.

[Remoteness]

E604s are OK but, my favorite dynamic tom mic is the MD409. They're kind of hard to find. I hear the 906 is a close match but, I cannot verify it since I haven't tried them yet.

The EV ND468 are pretty cool too...
If you have space between the toms and cymbells MD421 are hard to beat.

[Fast420A]

Originally Posted by maar

SE Electronics SE2a! in box with spider and 3 modules: hypercardi/cardi/omni
Incredible value for money

What is your reasoning for putting a $600 worth of Small Diaphram Condensor mics in front of a guy with two sticks whose job it is to beat the things the mics are attached to?

I agree with the EV N/D468's beings the best for the job. I own 3 of them already and plan on getting 3 more as soon as I can so I can have all 5 toms and the snare. I currently have the EV N/D478 for the snare and the EV N/D868 for the bass.


Compare the Polar patterns and see which one you think is going to be better for the toms.


http://shop.sennheiserusa.com/retail...E604_polar.jpg

http://www.telex.com/electrovoice/EV...wired)-eds.pdf

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite...e609silver.pdf

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/pdfs/md421ii.pdf

[TheSoundFella]

EV 468's I especially love. They pick up the "sticky- ness" of the toms quite well too - especially if you are into more "jazzy" rock where every component of the drums is important (not just kick n snare). Great tones....

Also cool on drums by EV is the 868 for kick & the 168 is very nice for snare, sounds as good (if not better than a 57) & is quite compact & not as likely to be smacked as the 57 either.

I mic our entire kit with EV, other than the OH's.......for now.......

[transfiguration]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

E604s are OK but, my favorite dynamic tom mic is the MD409. They're kind of hard to find. I hear the 906 is a close match but, I cannot verify it since I haven't tried them yet.

The EV ND468 are pretty cool too...
If you have space between the toms and cymbells MD421 are hard to beat.

Just recently acquired some very excellent condition 409's for use on guitars. Every now and then I see a 509 on ebay. What differences are they *if any* between the 409 and the 509?

Am very much looking forward to hearing the 409 on a grille with a 121 a number of inches out...IBP phase alighned. Through the Shadow Hills GAMA....aaaaaahhhhh.

Have a couple 468's that I use for toms in live sound and live sound recording. Good mics...worth the money.

I've used the 604 on floor tom (recording & live sound) and it was not memorable.

Vintage "Sennies" (421) to 421-II.... any REAL difference as far as capturing toms are concerned?

B1's *for me* really are the shiznit. Yes..they bleed. But damn...the TONE..THE TONE!!!! Have 4 of em. Have expanders handy....to minimize (not kill completely) cymbal/snare/& hat bleed.

Best, trans

[Sound Sorcerer]

I like the Electrovoice 468 for toms & other percussion. Excellent sound, reach & low profile...

[apdv1]

Beta 98'8
MD 421's or 441's
Try a D112 on the floor

[Jim vanBergen]

I have eight 504s I like to use; depending on the tuning of the tom I also like Audix D2 or D4's, especially on the floor or lower tuned toms- the D4 was their first dedicated kick mic and its just FAT on big drums!

421s (originals, not the re-release!) sound amazing, but making them fit on a busy kit is tough, and if you're swapping mics between bands, the clips from Senn & Audix D series are great.

I use Shure 98s a lot though I not a huge fan...plenty of stick and attack if you like the hard edge, but never enough DRUM tone for my flavor. YMMV....

[pan]

I work for a band whos drummer is really soft on the toms.

Shure Beta 98s and EV 368/468 worked best for me among the others mentioned.


And to add another mic to check:

Ramsa/(Panasonic) SM-2 a miniature clip-on with external PSU.
Usually advertised for Brass.(discontinued)

n

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by transfiguration

Just recently acquired some very excellent condition 409's for use on guitars. Every now and then I see a 509 on ebay. What differences are they *if any* between the 409 and the 509?

Am very much looking forward to hearing the 409 on a grille with a 121 a number of inches out...IBP phase alighned. Through the Shadow Hills GAMA....aaaaaahhhhh.

Have a couple 468's that I use for toms in live sound and live sound recording. Good mics...worth the money.

I've used the 604 on floor tom (recording & live sound) and it was not memorable.

Vintage "Sennies" (421) to 421-II.... any REAL difference as far as capturing toms are concerned?

B1's *for me* really are the shiznit. Yes..they bleed. But damn...the TONE..THE TONE!!!! Have 4 of em. Have expanders handy....to minimize (not kill completely) cymbal/snare/& hat bleed.

Best, trans

trans,

How many MD409s did you find? Any amount is an awesome situation. I never understood why Sennheiser never made them available stateside until late, and then discontinued them completely.

Try the MD409s on toms -- you may dig them a lot. You do have a couple of ND468s so my suggestion may not apply. The 468s are very cool tom mics for sure.

From what I understand the MD509 is the exact same mic as the MD409. I believe it's the European model number for that transducer. Corrections to my statement are welcomed.

Man, the MD409 / R121 combo sounds wonderful on GTR cabinets. I don't own any IBPs yet (WHAT!!!) Having the ability to phase align those mics up front rather than in the mix is killer cool stuff.

IMO, vintage MD421s is the only way to go... Don't ever put an old one up against a MKII. You will not believe your ears. They do not sound the same at all.
I have 12 or 13 of the oldies... I had to buy another one and ended up getting the MKII... Bad move -- They cannot be used in conjunction with the vintage ones. My MKII is now a spare mic in "Jethro's" Control cabin. I didn't want to keep it with the others because I was afraid that someone would use it as a pair with an older one. On its own, they're not too bad. Putting it up against a REAL one is another story.

Yeah, bleed is a good thing especially when you capture the good leakage with those mics.

[transfiguration]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

trans,

How many MD409s did you find? Any amount is an awesome situation. I never understood why Sennheiser never made them available stateside until late, and then discontinued them completely.

Try the MD409s on toms -- you may dig them a lot. You do have a couple of ND468s so my suggestion may not apply. The 468s are very cool tom mics for sure.

From what I understand the MD509 is the exact same mic as the MD409. I believe it's the European model number for that transducer. Corrections to my statement are welcomed.

Man, the MD409 / R121 combo sounds wonderful on GTR cabinets. I don't own any IBPs yet (WHAT!!!) Having the ability to phase align those mics up front rather than in the mix is killer cool stuff.

IMO, vintage MD421s is the only way to go... Don't ever put an old one up against a MKII. You will not believe your ears. They do not sound the same at all.
I have 12 or 13 of the oldies... I had to buy another one and ended up getting the MKII... Bad move -- They cannot be used in conjunction with the vintage ones. My MKII is now a spare mic in "Jethro's" Control cabin. I didn't want to keep it with the others because I was afraid that someone would use it as a pair with an older one. On its own, they're not too bad. Putting it up against a REAL one is another story.

Yeah, bleed is a good thing especially when you capture the good leakage with those mics.

Steve,

I was able to pick up a couple 409's and a 421 for a K. I was able to try the 409 on a floor tom last night and was pleased. I'm betting I would like them on rack toms better though.

I havn't read/heard any differently than you have regarding the 509. I believe it is sometimes referenced as the "fire..something" version because of the red lettering.

At some point in time I would like to have up to 6 of these IBP phase alighnment tools. It would be a very cool thing to be able to phase align:

• guitar grille mic to a mic placed 6 to 12 inches back
• bass di to miced bass (EV 27?)
• inside kick to outside kick
• etc., etc.

Of course, having the TIME and PATIENCE of all those involved in a live recording to do this is another matter all together.

My experience has been its just go. go. go and then hit record.

Regarding the 421's....the "vintage" 421's... ..how are these identified clearly... cuz as far as I know there is the 421-II (Does it even not suite your preferences for miced grille guitar?) the 421 U5 and the 421 U4. I'm not clear on these differences.

Have you had the chance to hear the Studio Projects B1's on toms? I know many balk at these chinky mics but I'm telling you for a hundred a pop they are huge contenders to the 468's I've been using. Maybe even the vintage 421's?

chris

[Cujo]

hmm, I like the d2 on the small rack in the studio,
Never noticed it having too much click. You mean stick attack right?
Is this just a live thing in your opinion?
That could be the type of heads too I suppose.

Originally Posted by Guitarl

Be careful with the audix mics. I think they can sound clicky in a live situation. Placement will help but a sound guy might turn your toms into clicks.

[AlexLakis]

Yet another vote for the e604. They're good-sounding mics, small, non-obstructive, and can take a HELL of a beating.

[blackcom]

The E604 has a "flabby" top and sounds thin in a mix, I hate them!

How would you guyes compare the D4/D2, ATM25 and EV468 in terms of sound and clicky-ness?

[AdamJay]

i found the AT4041 condensers to be surprisingly useful on toms. ESPECIALLY jazz/blues drummers, or when the use of toms is subtle. (read: Not Bonham)
There is some proximity effect, but at 3 or 4 inches, it seems to be 'just right' on toms.
gotta gate em though.

otherwise i use 421's.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by blackcom

The E604 has a "flabby" top and sounds thin in a mix, I hate them!

i agree! however, i can see the usefulness for a live situation--with the low profile & all. (most of the occasional live recording i do is primarily for later release, so i usually end up sound replacing the toms anyway... flame away!)

Originally Posted by AdamJay

i found the AT4041 condensers to be surprisingly useful on toms.

once in a studio setting, the drummer's tom heads were dead as a doornail. at 4033's gave them a lot of snap, and ended up sounding pretty good in the mix.

--jon

[transfiguration]

Originally Posted by blackcom

How would you guyes compare the D4/D2, ATM25 and EV468 in terms of sound and clicky-ness?

EV468

ATM 25

Audix D4

Studio Projects B1

[blackcom]

I'm not too good at "translating" specs, I kinda need to hear them

Seems like i've gonna get either EV468, ATM23 or D2/D4 myself....

Actually, the EV468 looks a littel fragile...what if it's aimed at the head with the cables pointing up and the drummer hits it....won't those cables break??