Coughs from the audience...leave or fix?

[Tommy-boy]

Suppose you've recorded a typical band or wind ensemble. During some quiet passages there are audible coughs from the audience that get captured by your recording.

Do you try to get rid of them or leave them in? If you try to remove the cough, how do you do it without messing with the rest of the sound?

I ask because I'm listening to a recording I did for a wind ensemble and I grit my teeth every time somebody in the audience coughs. I originally tried to use EQ with a narrow Q to notch it out but couldn't seem to get rid of the cough without making it obvious.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

-Tom

[ninjaneer]

this one is worth a demo...

iZotope RX - Complete Audio Restoration: Declipping, Declicker, Hum Removal, Denoiser, Spectral Repair, Restore, Remaster, Download

[joelpatterson]

Yes, if it's possible, you try to cut-and-paste edit it out, taking a split second of audience silence and pasting it over the cough, or dipping the volume momentarily, or doing SOMETHING... but sometimes it's not possible, like if there's the fading tail of musical sound washing around the room...

In any case, just make sure the cough sounds realistic and true-to-life.

[NorseHorse]

First, I look for any quick fixes. Was the cough in a repeated passage? Can you replace the section or note from a portion of another part of the recording?

If it can't be dealt with quickly, then I leave it. If the client plans to use it for a festival submission or CD release and is really bothered by it, they'll let you know and then you can start dealing with it in more detail. Most of the time, it's just an accepted (and perhaps regrettable) part of recording LIVE.

The audience is out to get me!

Cheers.

[David.H]

I use Samplitude 10, it has a very good feature called Spectrol Cleaning, I have removed many a cough with it. I even had a client who knew someone had coughed during the perfomace but said he could not hear it on disc! Can't be bad.

[idylldon]

I've used spectral editing in Wavelab 6 with excellent results.

Cheers,
--
Don

[0VU]

My preference is CEDAR ReTouch. It's not perfect but it seems to be able to get at and remove more problem noises than any of the others, with fewer (if any) harmful side effects.

[Tommy-boy]

Originally Posted by idylldon

I've used spectral editing in Wavelab 6 with excellent results.

Cheers,
--
Don

I have WL 6 and I'm not sure I understand your approach. Can you elaborate on this a little?

[idylldon]

Originally Posted by Tommy-boy

I have WL 6 and I'm not sure I understand your approach. Can you elaborate on this a little?

Go into spectral view and find the offending noise on the EQ spectrum. Zoom in so you can see its boundaries clearly. You can then draw a box around it and diminish or eliminate it completely, depending on how tight you can get the frequency and whether or not you can live with just making it quieter. It's usually just a matter of playing with the settings to get as close to the desired result as you want. Sometimes you can eliminate it completely and it will be unnoticeable (to the average listener); other times it covers too much of the frequency spectrum to eliminate it completely without having some noticeable artifacts. It's a powerful tool, but it takes some practice and tweaking to make it work, and settings that work for one kind of noise won't necessarily work for another.

Cheers,
--
Don

[kalz]

Mother F-ers who cough during a performance suck. Can't even wait for a break between movements.


I use and spectral cleaning with a Sequoia System- works great. I use Soundtrack also works as well. The graphics in Sequoia are better. Let me know if you need a hand I am local to philly. I have used wavelab in the past for stereo editing- works well.

mark

[Corran]

I never fix coughs. I just don't generally have time or the need.

However if anybody's got a suggestion for a free noise removal tool for that kinda thing I'd be interested to try it. I currently have a tool for generic noise removal/reduction of constant background noise but it's not any use for intermittent things like coughing, especially not during the actual music.

[MichaelPatrick]

It used to bother me too, but now I see it as part of the character of a live event. Making a live concert sound like a studio recording isn't practical, IMO, or beneficial.

If a client wants it noiseless they can rent a hall. I'll be there, charging a bit more though for the retakes, working late into the night, and so on. And they'll deserve a quiet recording because they paid for it.

[Corran]

yeah that's kinda how I feel.

[mathieujm]

I too use spectral cleaning of Samplitude for these issues. During a recent recording in studio conditions, I had noises from the piano chair, scores noises, thunderstorm... All was removed with this tool.

You can try it with the download version of Samplitude 10

JMM

[Remoteness]

Too bad we cannot kindly ask the folks that continuously cough to sit at the back of the space as far away from the mics as possible...

It's not a perfect concept, but it could help.

[Tommy-boy]

Originally Posted by idylldon

Go into spectral view and find the offending noise on the EQ spectrum. Zoom in so you can see its boundaries clearly. You can then draw a box around it and diminish or eliminate it completely, depending on how tight you can get the frequency and whether or not you can live with just making it quieter. It's usually just a matter of playing with the settings to get as close to the desired result as you want. Sometimes you can eliminate it completely and it will be unnoticeable (to the average listener); other times it covers too much of the frequency spectrum to eliminate it completely without having some noticeable artifacts. It's a powerful tool, but it takes some practice and tweaking to make it work, and settings that work for one kind of noise won't necessarily work for another.

Cheers,
--
Don

Thanks for the detailed info!

Maybe next time I'll hand out cough drops as people walk in. I'd imagine folks would think that was really strange though.

[boojum]

I recorded the Handel Messiah and it sounded like the tenor had TB. And the only time he was not coughing was when he was singing. I got most of it out with careful editing. I should have tried Spectral Cleaning but overlooked it. I may go back a copy the masters and clean them, just to see what happens. Thanks.

[panatrope]

In terms of coughs, it depends on context. If I am broadcasting a performance direct or recording for 'almost live' presentation, I am not too worried. What I am capturing is reportage, and other than something that is too distressing or distracting, it all stays in. If it is being prepared for much delayed presentation or for 'the library', then a different approach applies as to editing (like removing tuning in between movements of a work, extended breaks etc.).

In these circumstances, for enduring recordings, then very distracting elements need to be targetted for amelioration. WaveLab 6 Surgical Precision can cope with this, or if the only alternative is a retake, then Algorithmix reNovator (EUR2500) could be considered if you are likely to have a continuing need. In one example, I offered the Algorithmix representative at an AES show a recording of a string quartet in which the cellist's chair squeaked as he moved during the (quiet) slow movement, the noise being mildly distracting but 'credible'. Being given only a 16 bit 44K1 sample to work on, he was still able to reduce the audibility by about 15dB (ie., in context almost inaudible) with negligible effect on the main audio. But he also said that if he had my 24/96K original, he would have had much more flexibility to remove it entirely.

As this program is available as a plug-in for WaveLab, then you have a choice of the native WL6 'surgical removal' facility or Algorithmix reNovator. But as to whether you should try to remove all audience artefacts during a live performance, that all depends on context. In the end you (or your producer) have to make a judgement ...

[Tommy-boy]

Idylldon -

I'm really glad you turned me on to spectral editing in WL. It's absolutely fantastic. I used it a bunch to clean up another recording I was working on.

-Tom

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Tommy-boy

Thanks for the detailed info!

Maybe next time I'll hand out cough drops as people walk in. I'd imagine folks would think that was really strange though.

I always bring a sack of cough drops when I record a concert. A drop of prevention...

Rather than strange, people seem to appreciate them and think it's classy.



in my research, I have come to favor the ShopRite cough drops.

other drops may be more effective, but the Shoprite brand are wrapped in soft wax paper which is much quieter than some of the 'better' drops with their crinkly cellophane.

[Remoteness]

Hey, wait a minute Joe!

Are you affiliated with ShopRite in any way?

[Ozpeter]

Spectral editing was I think first introduced in Adobe Audition, and it's still pretty good for the task. They brought across the concept of the healing brush from their stablemate Photoshop.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Hey, wait a minute Joe!

Are you affiliated with ShopRite in any way?

Not at all - just a satisfied customer

I would certainly put it into my signature if I was!

[ESL]

Here's another app that can be quite handy when one tackles the cough, sneeze, baby, or mobile phone:
AudioSculpt

[MGriffin]

Originally Posted by joeq

I always bring a sack of cough drops when I record a concert. A drop of prevention...

Rather than strange, people seem to appreciate them and think it's classy.



in my research, I have come to favor the ShopRite cough drops.

other drops may be more effective, but the Shoprite brand are wrapped in soft wax paper which is much quieter than some of the 'better' drops with their crinkly cellophane.

....and then you have hundreds of people unwrapping cough drops, in the quiet parts, even the ones who don't need them.