Lexicon PCM96 Presets For Orchestral Film Cue

[Simsy]

Hi

I need some advice and pretty quick. I have just finished a orchestral film score. Was doing the mix on it and then decided, what the hell and ordered a Lexicon PCM96.

So it is arriving on Friday and I am holding off on finishing the mix until it arrives, but as time will be tight, I am looking for advice on what presets to dial up to get the mix done.


What would you recommend for say strings, brass and woodwind? Would I use a seperate say plate reverb for the percussion?

I am a composer not an engineer, but the budget is very limited on this film so I am having to play both hats!!

Any advice on the lexicon or even mixing orchestral film cues would be most appreciated!!!

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by Simsy

Hi
Any advice on the lexicon or even mixing orchestral film cues would be most appreciated!!!

Most of the Hollywood guys I know start with the halls for orchestral stuff. I'd suggest stepping through the medium/large hall presets with your material and see what grabs your ear. You'll probably want to tweak the soft knobs for each preset (3 little knobs on front of the box). I'd guess that you may want to boost the predelay into the 25-35 millisecond range--maybe even a bit more.

In film mixing, you'll find that monitoring is very important. Try to play your mix back through regular stereo, dolby matrix decode and mono, at the minimum. Lex verbs are engineering to minimize any compatibility issues, but there are all sorts of ways to be surprised with a film mix. Best to catch them early. If you've got dialog and FX tracks available, try to play your music mix back with those other stems. Whoever's running the overall mix at final dub will be responsible for making it all work together, but you can help a lot by leaving holes for the important stuff. For example, one particular sound designer I know told me that he tries to speak to the composer in order to find the key of the score for each cue. He then makes sure that the low tones of his effects work with that key.

Have fun.
N.S.

[Simsy]

Hi

Thanks for your help. I do have 2 last questions

1) Should I just place all sections into the same Hall setting, or should I put Strings, woodwind, brass into a certain Hall and the percussion into a plate?

2) For my audio interface I use the Apogee Ensemble, it uses firewire too. The Mac Pro has two firewire ports but as far as I know use the same bus. If I want to use the PCM96 over firewire am I going to have any issues running both the Apogee Ensemble and the PCM 96 over firewire at the same time?


Thanks.

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by Simsy

Hi
1) Should I just place all sections into the same Hall setting, or should I put Strings, woodwind, brass into a certain Hall and the percussion into a plate?

If you're looking for a natural orchestral sound, you're better off keeping everybody in the same verb. One thing that might work is to put the percussion into a slightly smaller hall, at slightly drier settings. That could keep things from being 'tubby'. Since this is your first experience with this sort of engineering, I'd recommend keeping it simple. I'm not minimizing the importance of a good music mix, but it seems that you have a lot on your plate. Dialog rules, of course. If you can get to the point of a usable preview mix, then the director might have some suggestions. Suggestions like that will rarely be technical, but they can still be helpful.

Plates are used a lot for percussion, but more frequently in a rock or jazz setting. If your score is leaning in that direction, plate might be more appropriate. But these are all rules of thumb, not laws of nature. The main thing in film mixing is to help tell the story without distraction. Take a good shot at a mix, go clear your head for half a day, then try watching the production in another room. A change of venue can be most useful in giving a good honest listen to a mix.

2) For my audio interface I use the Apogee Ensemble, it uses firewire too. The Mac Pro has two firewire ports but as far as I know use the same bus. If I want to use the PCM96 over firewire am I going to have any issues running both the Apogee Ensemble and the PCM 96 over firewire at the same time?

Don't know for sure in your case, but we've run off the same firewire port with many different interfaces. I think the chances are strongly in your favor. And again, have fun. The director doesn't really mean it when he says he's going to kill you.

N.S.

[Simsy]

Hi

Thanks for your help!! I really appreciate it. Courier says it is being delivered on Thursday, can't wait!

[Teddy Ray]

may wanto have this moved to the "remote" section as there a re alot of scoring guys in there...

Originally Posted by Simsy

Hi

I need some advice and pretty quick. I have just finished a orchestral film score. Was doing the mix on it and then decided, what the hell and ordered a Lexicon PCM96.

So it is arriving on Friday and I am holding off on finishing the mix until it arrives, but as time will be tight, I am looking for advice on what presets to dial up to get the mix done.


What would you recommend for say strings, brass and woodwind? Would I use a seperate say plate reverb for the percussion?

I am a composer not an engineer, but the budget is very limited on this film so I am having to play both hats!!

Any advice on the lexicon or even mixing orchestral film cues would be most appreciated!!!

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

may wanto have this moved to the "remote" section as there a re alot of scoring guys in there...

Done!

[klaukholm]

It is hard to say not being there. Can you tell us what your mix looks like?
What stems, what kind of hall, what main mics?
What does the score sound like?
How big is the orchestra and what are the main feature instruments/sections?

I would make different choices for action cues, effects and lush sections.

When competing with SFX in say an action cue, I would keep the bite as it needs to cut, but if you are looking at Barber adagio.....

If at all possible, listen with all sfx and dialogue in.

[Simsy]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

It is hard to say not being there. Can you tell us what your mix looks like?
What stems, what kind of hall, what main mics?
What does the score sound like?
How big is the orchestra and what are the main feature instruments/sections?

I would make different choices for action cues, effects and lush sections.

When competing with SFX in say an action cue, I would keep the bite as it needs to cut, but if you are looking at Barber adagio.....

If at all possible, listen with all sfx and dialogue in.

Unfortunitly, the budget is so small on this film as I am just starting out as a film composer and I am still earning my dues. So it is a lot of virtual instruments (mainly Vienna Symphonic Library, Project Sam) with electronic elements from Spectrasonics. I then recorded some live instruments to mix in and add realism to the music.

The orchestra consists of Piccolo, 2 Flutes, Oboe, 2 Clarinets, 2 Bassoon. Bass Drum, Chimes, Bells, Glockenspiel, Harp, Celeste, Piano, Solo Cello, Solo DB, Violin 1 + 2, Viola, Celli, Double Basses.

It is a darkish score, it is for a horror film, but is more dark and beautiful than typical horror type music.

I need to make it sound lush, there is a lot of solo piano mixd with large lush string sections with the glockenspiel and celeste accenting a few motifs here and there.

Hope this helps, any suggestions would be most appreciated!!

Thanks!

[postprosound]

Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but most of the films that i've worked on are mixed relatively dry, then verb is decided upon on the film dub stage. If fact, many film mixers, and directors alike, actually prefer to have stems of the score so that individual parts (strings, percussion, etc,) can be raised or lowered based on the material, desired mood, the directors wants,...

just my 9cents, adjusted due to recent economic changes...