Should our identity be known or hidden? Plus, general forum etiquette

[klaukholm]

I know this has been discussed before, but recent events call for a dicussion outside of the infected threads.

Steve Remote, we all support your great work as a moderator and if that means you have to edit post then we are all behind you!
I promise I will never get upset if you edit mine as long as I get a pm about it, and I am sure that goes for most of us here.

I am very disturbed by the recent trend of anonymous posters being abusive as well as lowering the quality of content on the forum.

Is it reasonable to do as Heynes forum and require all to sign with names?
Affiliations should be visible to the moderator at a minimum.

While some may lie and some valuable contributors may choose not to post, I still feel it would elevate the discourse somewhat and get us back to where we were a few years ago.


Thanks again for the great work Steve!

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

And, you can count on it -- Giving the benefit of the doubt may be a thing of the past if this keeps up.

I still think it's a good idea to be aware of potential ambiguity in forum postings - but of course a straight insult is a straight insult, not much to doubt there.

Kjetil, how can you find out whether someone is not using his true identity? How can you keep someone from registering with a new name (e.g. after being banned). "Wotan" did so, in order to protect his previous identity (I don't really see the reason to respect that, to be honest - think he should have been exposed). Blocking email addresses or IPs won't help, either, both are a dime a dozen, many people have dynamic IPs anyhow, and there are proxy servers. A troll will find a way to come back once banned. Guess the only way to get rid of trolls is by starvation.

Daniel

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by d_fu

I still think it's a good idea to be aware of potential ambiguity in forum postings - but of course a straight insult is a straight insult, not much to doubt there.

Kjetil, how can you find out whether someone is not using his true identity? How can you keep someone from registering with a new name (e.g. after being banned). "Wotan" did so, in order to protect his previous identity (I don't really see the reason to respect that, to be honest - think he should have been exposed). Blocking email addresses or IPs won't help, either, both are a dime a dozen, many people have dynamic IPs anyhow, and there are proxy servers. A troll will find a way to come back once banned. Guess the only way to get rid of trolls is by starvation.

Daniel

Wotan would then have been banned by default the moment his double identity was revealed. Both his IDs would be banned IMO.

OK, so some would lie, but thats life.

There is no legitimate reason why anyone should choose not to reveal their name in a forum discussion.

[d_fu]

The topic has been discussed at length...

I would still maintain that the right to remain (semi-) anonymous (if one chooses to) counts more than (mostly semi-effective) measures against trolls.

Originally Posted by klaukholm

There is no legitimate reason why anyone should choose not to reveal their name in a forum discussion.

I don't agree with that. People (not just me) have given various good reasons in the other thread.
I would agree if this were a conference where we all met in person. But it isn't.

As I've said before, I would assume that many would drop anonymity if that could be limited to a group of "trusted" members who prove their identity to Steve or Jules. Not sure if that's technically possible.


Daniel

[klaukholm]

The last 3 months the most infectuous posts have all been made by anonymous posters. There are somewhere between 6 and 10 anonymous posters that have changed the tone of discourse here for the worse.

[Remoteness]

This forum is only as strong as its weakest link.
Our weakest link is the anonymous identity crisis.
It was just find when every one treated each other with respect.
Things have changed for the worst; if we don't do something about it fast we may never be able to bring it back to what it once was.

This forum has become a lot more popular as of late; I'm not surprised that this new found popularity has also brought us conflicts and offensive behaviour by a few anonymous members.

We must come up with a solution that will work for most of us.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by oky****

hi,

are you on the board of directors, or a cop, or what?

did someone put you in charge of establishing policies, or are you just upset and acting like someone did?


right.

All I ask is for a name. That is all the credentials I need.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by d_fu

As I've said before, I would assume that many would drop anonymity if that could be limited to a group of "trusted" members who prove their identity to Steve or Jules. Not sure if that's technically possible.


Daniel

That would work for me.

I would still have a much easier time reading and considering a post where the name of the poster is public.

It puts statements in context.
If I were to discuss Norways relationship to the EU and it's reasons for being on the outside, it would be good for you to know that I am Norwegian and that I am therefore prone to bias.

Thucydides taught us all a lot about this millennia ago.

It is also the most fundamental part of scientific discourse. Reveal your sources clearly. What is your identity, if not your main source and reference point in most discourse.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

We must come up with a solution that will work for most of us.

I just don't think that enforcing anything (or trying to...) will work.
The board software should allow to set up user groups besides admins, mods, and regular members. Create a "Trusted Remotesters" group or so, and manually add those to the group that already choose to sign with full (verifiable) details or send these to you. The full details of those that choose to remain semi-anonymous will only be visible to group members.

The fight against trolls will involve deleting and banning, I guess, if ignoring doesn't do it.

Daniel

[David Spearritt]

As I said in the previous discussion, I am all for real names. Even though good reasons may have been given for keeping things anonymous, one could equally say that good reasons were also given to use real names as well. These reasons were/are just as significant.

The last few weeks here have been a study in really bad manners and insults. As I said before the most civilized forum on the net with the highest signal to noise ratio containing the most authoritative information is Klaus Heynes mic forum. Now while some of this is due to Klaus's rigorous and tireless approach to editing, the refusal to allow anonymous posting is the foundation of his successful approach.

Sure, some people might pretend they are someone else, but will soon be discovered, "corrected" and removed. It works for Klaus's forum, no-one seems to want to troll there, its simply not worth it.

I respect the need for anonymity, but its rejection is one proven solution against the descent of a forum into disrespect and irrelevance.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

This forum is only as strong as its weakest link.
Our weakest link is the anonymous identity crisis.
It was just find when every one treated each other with respect.
Things have changed for the worst; if we don't do something about it fast we may never be able to bring it back to what it once was.

Agreed - If someone wants to remain anonymous in posting, at least his real identity should be available to be viewed by moderators who can then take fast appropriate action.

I have always posted under my real name.

Originally Posted by Remoteness

This forum has become a lot more popular as of late; I'm not surprised that this new found popularity has also brought us conflicts and offensive behaviour by a few anonymous members.

Of course, this is the best forum on Gearslutz.

Originally Posted by Remoteness

We must come up with a solution that will work for most of us.

Agreed.

[Coyoteous]

I haven't read the other thread. I used to be semi-anonymous... you could go to my website link and probably figure out who I am.

When I first signed on I had my name in my sig, and my posts kept showing up when I would Google myself (ha)... even when I put a space between each character.

For the last few months, I've used an image of my name. That seems to work pretty good for me.

[Dale]

Gentlemen
we are having a circular discussion.
Has anyone noted that the Lavery's and Katz' do not ask questions here! They have their high level discussions on other locations. They post here because they want to share and raise the level of understanding.

Maybe this is a case for some tough love, screw the politics of giving the benefit of the doubt. But that means the work load of the moderators goes up.

This has been a nice place for refining one's understanding. If we could just deal with our neo-bushites??

[HobbyCore]

Some of us can not post under our real names lest we limit what can be posted. I already have to be careful of what I post sometimes even anonymously.

Even then, nothing stops someone from a. creating a fake identity or b. just lying or c. the person being a complete ass in "real life" unafraid to troll with their real name.

It's not a 'solution' at all.

edit: I'll gladly let the mod(s) know who I am, I'm not an important person by any means, but due to my work I can't be plastering my name all over. I know this is not the case for everyone however.

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by Dale

Gentlemen
we are having a circular discussion.
Has anyone noted that the Lavery's and Katz' do not ask questions here! They post here because they want to share and raise the level of understanding.

hi,


Blah, blah, bah, bah, blah, blah, bah


right.

This is the edited (by Remoteness) version for your review.
I wanted to add some clarity to this dialog.

[d_fu]

Not again...

Why not discuss the technical matters (over in the other thread, not here) without launching personal attacks? Nothing wrong with criticizing his technical points, if you can come up with substance (beyond the somewhat diffuse comment on "latency"...)

Daniel

[Haigbabe]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

All I ask is for a name. That is all the credentials I need.

I agree.

Best regards,

Steve Waugh

[ISedlacek]

A link to one´s own website (if any), an approximate location (whether Papua, Greenland etc.) and/or something about oneself as far as the studio/recording/professional life is concerned, would not hurt as well ...

This has been already discussed before, I know ... And some reasons were given why to be anonymous and the discussion was terminated. While someone may consider these reasons as important, I personally find many more important reasons why NOT to be completely anonymous. I cannot help, but I simply find entering here and starting intensive discussions without indicating a single reasonable word about oneself (for example in the profile) to be a bit impolite and strange ...

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

A link to one´s own website (if any), an approximate location (whether Papua, Greenland etc.) and/or something about oneself as far as the studio/recording/professional life is concerned, would not hurt as well ...

This has been already discussed before, I know ... And some reasons were given why to be anonymous and the discussion was terminated. While someone may consider these reasons as important, I personally find many more important reasons why NOT to be completely anonymous. I cannot help, but I simply find entering here and starting intensive discussions without indicating a single reasonable word about oneself (for example in the profile) to be a bit impolite and strange ...

In the 'real world' (that is, outside of the internet), we don't get the benefit of seeing someone's studio before we decide to respond to them. We don't get to look of them up online. We don't even get to see their ID to know if they are who they say they are.

Why is it so difficult to accept these terms in this place of discussion?

[Jimbo]

There are no solutions to this problem: only deterrents.

The best recourse is to not feed the trolls. If someone posts nasty, inflammatory remarks, just move on.

Parasites, bacteria, fungus, and trolls won't stay where there is no food.

[Corran]

Maybe you should make a poll?

I am still heavily in favor of anonymity hear, even though I sign my posts. I don't think requiring names would make anything better.

Perhaps another solution - a "report post" function so that Steve knows something is going down and can deal with it. I know Steve isn't on here 24/7 but these things aren't happening hourly anyways.

[fifthcircle]

This thread is showing the exact reason why we need to end the anonymous thing. If you can post here, there is no reason why we shouldn't know who you are. If you are afraid of something coming back to you and harming a reputation, then you probably shouldn't be saying it. Pretty simple and it would turn the direction around in this forum.

The personal attacks cannot be tolerated.

Oh and for those who doubt the power of the internet- be a good citizen here. Don't open your figurative mouth if you don't know what you are talking about (ie don't talk about experience you don't have) and you might be amazed at how it can affect business.

I have no issue with those that are starting out. We all had to begin somewhere, didn't we? This is not a high-end versus low-end thing. It is about respect for the others in the forum just the way you would have to if you were working directly with them.

--Ben

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

If you are afraid of something coming back to you and harming a reputation, then you probably shouldn't be saying it. Pretty simple and it would turn the direction around in this forum.

--Ben

That coins it!

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

This thread is showing the exact reason why we need to end the anonymous thing. If you can post here, there is no reason why we shouldn't know who you are. If you are afraid of something coming back to you and harming a reputation, then you probably shouldn't be saying it. Pretty simple and it would turn the direction around in this forum.

The personal attacks cannot be tolerated.

Oh and for those who doubt the power of the internet- be a good citizen here. Don't open your figurative mouth if you don't know what you are talking about (ie don't talk about experience you don't have) and you might be amazed at how it can affect business.

I have no issue with those that are starting out. We all had to begin somewhere, didn't we? This is not a high-end versus low-end thing. It is about respect for the others in the forum just the way you would have to if you were working directly with them.

--Ben

Sometimes it doesn't have to do with 'harming your reputation'.

[joelpatterson]

Sometimes, maybe, even then, perhaps, sure you can string together a bunch of excuses and hypotheticals, bottom line I don't see why if you're someone with something to say you are afraid to identify yourself.

[BrianHanke]

In my opinion, it's essential in cases like this that problem members immediately be given a private warning about their behavior and then be promptly banned if they continue. I think requiring real names would be great, but strict enforcement is the key regardless of whether people remain anonymous or not.

My block list grows ever longer. It's incredibly frustrating when informative threads devolve into bickering started by anonymous trolls. I don't believe people should ever reply to such posts. Trolls love the attention, so the more we address what they say the more it validates them and encourages them to continue. Better that the offending post is simply deleted, allowing us all to move on.

[klaukholm]

The compromise is simple.
You should be required to post your name in your profile which should be available only to members of the forum. That way names do not show up in search engines.

We should be able to trust eachother with our names within the forum.

[Corran]

Then I'm sure you'd have a lot of John Smiths.

[joelpatterson]

And woe unto the people who really are named John Smith!

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Sometimes, maybe, even then, perhaps, sure you can string together a bunch of excuses and hypotheticals, bottom line I don't see why if you're someone with something to say you are afraid to identify yourself.

Because maybe someone is under contract to NOT say specific things they wish to talk about.

and/or 'perhaps' someone is not allowed, under job contract, to speak publicly on matters related to or concerning their line of work.

I fall into that category. I know at least 2 other posters on GS who do (of thousands, I know). In my case, I'll gladly let the mods know my information, but I believe I've behaved in a respectful manner in this forum.

The problem occurs when you realize that the people who can and will give their name publicly are generally the ones who will behave whether anonymous or not. The trolls will do what they wish under whatever name they want. You'd simply be separating two groups that already intrinsically separate themselves!