So, what's your opinion on remote/live guys undercutting/poaching business?

[bishopthomas]

Well, it just happened to me this morning. I got a call yesterday from a band needing sound and lights for a show this weekend. I gave them a really good price and they said they'd get back to me. Of course I know this means they're taking bids and that's okay. I didn't hear back but I got a call from another local sound company (that I work for and with a lot) today asking if I could cover the same gig. So now I'm left either taking the gig for less money or not working this weekend. Of course I'm going to take the gig because I need the money, but doesn't it suck to get undercut and also funny that I'm ending up with the gig anyway?

[NorseHorse]

Congrats on 1,000 posts!

[bishopthomas]

Thanks, Norse! I would guess that 10% of them might be quality. Well, after this one I guess make it 9.9%

[Piedpiper]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

... but doesn't it suck to get undercut and also funny that I'm ending up with the gig anyway?

2 purrrfect!

makes me wonder if there's a place for discussion with the boss, not accusatorially but in the best mutual interest.

[LX3]

Hmm... if you gave them a really good price the first time around, would you seriously consider doing it as a sub-contractor for less? The other company must have an idea what you charge... so they must realise when they're pushing you too hard. Are they offering you way less than you quoted?

The other question is, will the band recognise that you're the company they turned down? If not, you can always take the gig for as much as you can get and keep quiet about it!

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by LX3

Hmm... if you gave them a really good price the first time around, would you seriously consider doing it as a sub-contractor for less? The other company must have an idea what you charge... so they must realise when they're pushing you too hard. Are they offering you way less than you quoted?

The other question is, will the band recognise that you're the company they turned down? If not, you can always take the gig for as much as you can get and keep quiet about it!

Unfortunately, yes, I will be taking this job. Not because I want to reduce my price by 23% but because I really need the money right now. I actually did try to pull the stunt I think you are talking about but it didn't work out. Apparently the client and the other sound company talked about me. I think he gave the band my name and number rather than just calling me himself. I guess I really could (and probably should) have stuck to my price but then risked that there was a sound company C somewhere in their search. Or they would have just rented some gear from the other guy and tried to do it themselves.

Either way, I let them know that they couldn't have all three professional qualities (fast, good, and cheap). They're giving up "fast" as I told them that I now cannot hire the labor that I had originally intended to. At least I now have learned what the competition is charging.

Oh yeah. If the "other guy" had been able to do the gig he would have had to rent lighting from me. So that tells me more about how little he is willing to take just to get the gig.

[joelpatterson]

I hear that with enough barbeque sauce, the ribs of a dog can taste just like the real thing.

[LX3]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

They're giving up "fast" as I told them that I now cannot hire the labor that I had originally intended to. At least I now have learned what the competition is charging.

Yup, I'm in a similar boat right now with one client. I can't afford to bring my usual assistants for the non-local shows (additional time and hotel costs) because the client pushed me so hard on price. I'm not happy about it, because it's high-pressure work where I didn't really want to risk using someone new, but luckily it's been working out.

It's also encouraged me to finally pick up a couple of new bits of gear, which (ironically) has reduced the amount of kit I'm using for these mid-size gigs, and therefore the speed with which I can rig and de-rig. So that's a good thing... even if it's cost me in the short term, it's added a bit more flexibility.

Ever get the impression that when TV need to save money, they cut the sound budget first? Well, it seems that way to me. As an audio guy, I suppose I'm going to think that.

[bishopthomas]

Well, the gig was a success and hopefully it will lead to a good relationship with this band. In the meantime I have another anecdote for you. I just found out that a certain sound company in the area is charging half the price of the average dry rental rate of a particular digital console. Half price! Really, what's the point?

[NorseHorse]

How much of a discount is the wet rental rate? Or does it cost more?

[gareth.h.rees]

I think I've just got in to a similar situation...

I did think I had a regular gig starting in October recording bands play a club - it wouldn't be paid, but I would be allowed to sell the recording to the band and keep the money from it. I've got a bit of experience, so this would be my first "semi-paid" gig.

My plan was to record to stereo in order to produce a finished product by the time the band leaves the building, which I'd hope would generate the sale on the night. I'd probably multitrack it too, so that they have the option of paying for remixing time at my studio etc.

However, now the organiser is considering letting the local music tech uni course students come and record the bands. I think I'd still be able to do it, regardless of if they were there or not - but my guess is they'd offer the recordings to the bands for free, or very little (even less than what I'd be willing to charge!)

As the bands will be small time bands, its unlikely that they'll all have a large amount of money to throw around so my guess is they'd go for the cheaper option of the music tech kids, rather than pay me on the night. Even though they may or may not be able to produce the CD on the day, I can't imagine the bands would fork out if they knew they could get a similar, cheaper product for the sake of a week of waiting for the mix?

I'm trying to consider what I could compete on - quality is the obvious one, but I don't think I'm really experienced enough to have that much of an edge over the music tech guys - maybe that's modesty, but it certainly doesn't leave me with that much of a safety net!

I do have close links with the university radio station, so could potentially do a live broadcast of the gig as I have the facility for that and could probably convince them to give up an hour of "presented" time, so maybe that's quite a good selling point.

Just wondering if anyone had any suggestions, short of sleeping with the organiser, to make her want to use me as a regular!

Cheers!
Gareth

[strewnshank]

Tell her that incompetent students from a college could tarnish the club's reputation, while a professional like yourself could actually enhance the club's standing in the eyes of bands looking for places to play.
Good luck!

[equallyscrewed]

Originally Posted by strewnshank

Tell her that incompetent students from a college could tarnish the club's reputation, while a professional like yourself could actually enhance the club's standing in the eyes of bands looking for places to play.
Good luck!

Here Here +1

xcx

[gareth.h.rees]

Originally Posted by strewnshank

Tell her that incompetent students from a college could tarnish the club's reputation, while a professional like yourself could actually enhance the club's standing in the eyes of bands looking for places to play.
Good luck!

I like it

However... not sure I can really go down that route because:

a) I'm still a student (well, graduating this summer.. Computer Science)
b) I'm not yet 'professional' (though I like to think I'm okay )
b) She's a student
c) It's a students union
d) The typical night involves falling over students with beer flying everywhere... hardly a respectable reputation!!

You see where its going..!

In all fairness I probably don't have that much of a selling point over them other than "well I do own pretty decent gear and have been doing this a while"... but I'm sure that could be the case for the other students too. They can probably use Uni equipment and from their course may have had a fair bit of experience.

I think I will play the "I've worked with bands a lot so know how to keep out of the way of the PA guy and get things done.." card, because having to worry about them patching in multicore to the FOH probably isn't what they want, whereas I'll be able to offer mic splits.

She's also a friend and someone I work with in a different job in the Union, so its hard to take a fully "professional" approach. Need to persuade her without sounding too business-like!

Hmmm!

[CAMGRec]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Well, the gig was a success and hopefully it will lead to a good relationship with this band.

Glad to hear it worked out, but I'm still a tad bit bugged by the whole situation.

I understand you needed the money, but the whole thing sort of stinks and it could set a bad precedent in the future. Even if the band does call you back, are they going to want to pay a higher rate now that they've paid you less?

I think I would have called the client and told them that I just got a call to do the gig from the company they hired. I might have taken it on the chin and turned the gig down unless it was at my originally quoted rate - with maybe a small discount as incentive to hire me directly.

[bishopthomas]

I agree that it was probably not the "right" thing to do for the industry as a whole. But I paid rent this month, something I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. They know that's not my usual rate and if they do call back I will make sure to remind them.

[7rojo7]

I rented gear to my competition that underbid me
I'm about to underbid myself at the moment
It's better than selling everything