Advice on rates and setup

[fallforward]

First a little background,

I studied Jazz Composition at UNLV, playing sax and piano. I love Jazz and there were concerts galore. I had left over dough from scholarships, so I bought a Mackie 1604vlz (which I still use) an ADAT (which I don't!) and a few cheap mics. 8 years later I have upgraded to pro tools and have some new outboard pres and converters and have been doing my best work to date, and still love jazz. I love doing stuff in studio also.

Here's the setup that I am thinking....

I want to setup my house as a live recording facility. I have a pretty nice size house (3,200 sq.ft) with wood flooring on the whole first level and 18 foot ceilings. I have a yamaha 6' piano. I want to be able to have people have a small 'concert' at my place that is actually a studio session but with a small audience 15-30 people. I have a sunken wet bar and a kitchen big enough for a caterer to work out of if they wanted catering. I also have a pool and a decent back yard for people to hang during set breaks and whatever else! I would only take small group jazz and chamber classical stuff, my neighbors wouldn't put up with a rock band, nor would I most likely!

What kind of rates do you think I could bring in? I live in Las Vegas and there is a pretty fair market for this, and I am 99% sure that NO ONE is doing this. One idea I had was to have the performers sell tickets and I would split the take with them and deduct what that from their total bill, though I think it might be weird to sell tickets to people to come to my house!

I am set on the technological end, I was just hoping to get some logistical advice.

What do you guys think? Would you want this as a performer? How much would you pay? (and of course it depends on the quality of recording) Just ballpark me, or lend two cents about the setup!

Thanks for everything you guys do in here!
Robby

[bishopthomas]

If you're selling tickets you better have some killer insurance in place.

[fallforward]

that was just one idea I had in order to make it cheaper for the performers. I guess it could be a liability. Again these wouldn't be concerts as much as just very intimate recitals. Thank you for the perspective.

All input is greatly appreciated.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I have a friend that has done this. He uses his living room for a recording studio and invites acoustic groups over to play and then records them. His house is about the same size as yours. He does not charge for his time and sometimes invites others over to hear the performance but does not charge them either.

This gets into all kinds of legal stuff which you should probably consult with a lawyer to get it all ironed out before you start. If your town has laws about concert venues you may run afoul of them as well. When you start charging the performer and the audience you are on some very shaky ground legally especially from a liability standpoint. A good lawyer can advise you and I would start there. Also if you are using your house for a business and your town has laws about running a business out of your home you may need to get special permits and or zoning changes which may or may not be easy to get.

Best of luck and let us know how this is coming along.

[bishopthomas]

What about selling the CD's? Maybe even make it mandatory for the audience to to puchase a copy at a reasonable price. This way everyone's paying but they're technically not buying tickets. They're just coming to a party where a band is playing.

[Remoteness]

That's a cool idea, but it still does not prevent some one from suing you if they hurt themselves on your property.

IMO, liability insurance should be considered for all of us whether you dig it or not.

[bishopthomas]

Of course, but doesn't home owners insurance do that? Not being a home owner myself I certainly couldn't check my policy, but that was my understanding. Also if your dog bites someone on your property, that kind of thing?

Either way, liability insurance for your business is something we all should have, but getting coverage for a "venue" might be harder (more expensive) than for someone just selling CD's.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

What about selling the CD's? Maybe even make it mandatory for the audience to to puchase a copy at a reasonable price. This way everyone's paying but they're technically not buying tickets. They're just coming to a party where a band is playing.

If it is mandatory purchase then the courts would see it as an "admission price"

It is a way cool idea and I hope that the OP can get this worked out and do it but there are lots of things to consider and unfortunately only a lawyer can sort them out.

The time to get some good advice is BEFORE you get yourself into trouble or someone sues you because they got injured and you find that your household insurance will not cover the liability for a money making event.

Any time you are charging money for an "event" it is a whole lot different from just having people over to your house for a party.

To the original OP again BEST OF LUCK and I hope it works out. Sounds like a neat idea and something that maybe beneficial to you and to the groups you would record.

[bishopthomas]

Do not charge the guests, charge the band. They're the ones with a finished product at the end and if they want to sell their CD's they're welcome to. Or if you don't think bands will pay then do it for free. But retain the rights to the concept. If it is successful and you have to start turning people away from your house then is the time to consider doing it "for real" in a commercial space.

[fallforward]

Thanks guys! Upon your advice I will start getting my moneys worth out of my pre paid legal benefit through my workplace! It looks like the idea of tickets leaves me vulnerable, and it really was just one of those brainstorming type of ideas anyways to make it a lower price point for the artist without having to cut any real discounts.

This conversation (which is greatly appreciated) has made wonder...

Is charging the artists to record at my place and letting them invite people to the session, the same as having a 'concert' at my house, thus making my house a venue? I already have an LLC and corporate TIN, I don't have liability insurance for my business so that is something to look into. But if I am just recording someone at my place and they invite people, am I still liable? Of course I will need to ask a lawyer, but just shootin here as you all have already been really helpful.

Thanks guys!
Robby

[rumleymusic]

But if I am just recording someone at my place and they invite people, am I still liable?

Technically yes, if you let them in your house. You can always make a band sign a damage/injury waiver and restrict them from inviting guests, but then you wouldn't have a "live" recording. It is best not to turn your primary residence into a concert venue unless you are just having a get-together with friends.

[Jim vanBergen]

I suggest you set a flat rate for the recording session, X number of $ for the event, lasting Y time period, which can include from "Doors Open" until "last call/lights out/time to go." Say for example, I was doing this, I'd shot for : 10am setup, noon soundcheck, 2pm rehearsal & level set, 4pm 1 hr runthru/dress, 5:30 re-set, 7:30 doors, 8pm downbeat, 10pm last call, 11pm all gear out.

-You could charge the band the equivalent of a 8 hr session, for "remote recording & producing" the event, and the house is a "favor". Invited guests can do a "donation" or "charity fundraiser" if that's how the band wants it; you might find that some bands have a friends & family entourage of 50 people easily! They might each get their people to shell out a donation to come up with the total package price, better if its up to them. The band should pay for catering, either with YOUR approved vendor or by following some set of standards you have set in stone in advance.

-You don't want to be charging people entry to your home, as you'll be more liable in terms of parking, fire exit, lighting/signage, accessability (do you have wheelchair ramps and handicapped toilets?) and responsibility to your neighborhood as well as the attendees.

Before you do a whole lot more, I'd try a dry run: since you're still in Vegas, why not do a night of soloists or duos/trios at your home with UNLV students, maybe a performance class or jazz/classicals that you host, and they get a copy of their recording, just as a favor/try out from a working professional doing something nice back as an alumni- that way you'll have the chance to see how it feels before you consider what its worth. The GOOD part is you can be pre-set for mics, recording rig, piano and audience before anyone steps foot in the room, and your upfront costs might be as low as some cruidite', chips, solda and wine, and a dozen CDs afterwards.

The student freebie is a great way to try your setup out and build clientele in a warm atmosphere. You never know when those students will come with credit cards out to record an album in your home, but you know there will be a new crop every year!

Hope this brainstorm helps, you've had some great ideas and it could really work!

Good luck!

[videoteque]

I would made a video and sell it to make money!!!

The idea is very nice, but the burocratic/law/insurance side must be taken seriously...

Let us know!!!

[Thomas W. Bethe]

The town I live in is a college town and there are always student parties going on in private off campus houses. Many of these parties have live music. You can tell where the party is by the number of cars parked on the street in front of the house and sometimes but the SPLs coming our of the house. Many times the police get called when the noise gets too loud or the comings and goings of the people in cars gets too crazy and the neighbors get upset and call the police. Sometimes the police get called by a neighbor when the party works its way out doors and people are smoking and or drinking in the front yard. Usually the first visit by the police is just to tell the party givers to "turn it down a notch" or clear out the front yard. Then the next call is more "you better stop what you are doing or the party will be shut down" and then the final call is to shut the party down and to start writing tickets. If a house gets known for having too many parties the college may get involved.

I bring this up because you don't want to get the police involved in your endeavor so maybe having people park at a near by shopping center and having someone provide a shuttle service so there are no "extra cars" in front of your house would be a good solution. Also I would NOT provide any alcoholic beverages and would request that no one bring any since a wee bit of alcohol can have unpredictable effects on your "audience" as well as on the people you are trying to record.

I really like your idea and hope it works for you. The biggest drawback that you will have to deal with is, the neighbors getting upset at the noise or the extra people at your house, or the 20 plus cars parked on their street. The other big factor is someone getting hurt and suing you for damages. If you can protect yourself from these problems you should do OK.

I wish you well and hope you can pull this off.

[Daniel Stark]

Hey Robbie,

Sounds like a really cool project!! Check out Firehouse 12 in New Haven CT (coincidentally where I grew up), they have an amazing studio/venue/small bar in a restored 2-level firehouse about that size. Might not help with the logistics in your home, I think their capacity is a little bigger (75 seats) than you are talking about.

[fallforward]

Yes I think adding video to it will be a no brainer as that is something I already have tha capability to do. That is a keeper.

As far as the cars go, I did think of that. I have parties pretty regularaly (which any and all of you are invited to if you are in Las Vegas) my second passion after music is slow smoke BBQ, and I have 20+ people over rather frequently. I don't think the noise will get too out of hand as I will only be doing classical and jazz, not to say that they can't be LOUD, but I won't have any marshall stacks in here either.

I don't think I will provide alcohol, even though I do have a very nice bar and it is kind of like having an old RCA ribbon that you just keep in a display case. But I get the liability of providing booze.

I think I am going to just charge a flat rate to the artist(s) and let them pass around a hat. I won't advertise that it is a concert as the only reason to have the audience here is just for the mere fact that the artist will have someone for which to perform. I'll set a limit of 20 guests.

I will sell DVD's and hopefully make a few extra sheckles that way, though they will probably just by one and then burn copies. But I will provide order forms to the guests and hopefully sell a few that way.

I am thinking a rate of 400-600 for the day. I currently charge 500-700 per gig for my mobile recording service, though that usually includes a PA system, with no hourly charge for mixing. I will do one (maybe) introductory rate gigs just to work out the kinks. Though I am known enough mor my work that I shouldn't have to beg TOO MUCH!

This isn't my full time job, not that I wouldn't mind it to be, but I like having paid vacations and sick times, along with free health insurance, so I am not trying to ditch my day gig. So I don't mind operating a little bit lower than someone who needed to pay a lease. And I don't feel like I am undercutting anyone here in town because no one is really doing this.


I like your idea Jim of saying a flat charge for: 10am setup, noon soundcheck, 2pm rehearsal & level set, 4pm 1 hr runthru/dress, 5:30 re-set, 7:30 doors, 8pm downbeat, 10pm last call, 11pm all gear out.

What do you guys think of the rate 400-600 for the day? It seems fair to me, but again I don't do this as my primary source of income so I lack a little perspective.

Thanks for all the advice and brainstorming, I have been thinking about this for about two years, and I finally have the gear and skills to be able to make it sound worth the money. I owe a lot of that to you guys!

Thanks!
Robby

[NorseHorse]

For the higher end of the rate, I feel like most artists would rather book a day at a studio.

Unless your performance space and video skillz were really good.

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

For the higher end of the rate, I feel like most artists would rather book a day at a studio.

I dunno, I have several clients who have realized that "live" is another dimension of their work that is overlooked, and they really dig being able to have some control over the audience's makeup. People tend to play better, more together when they are off the cans and listening to each other. The studio is a totally different vibe than live, and is there is a good atmosphere, I can see this doing well at that price point. Doing a showcase takes all day. Doing a showcase your friends & family can attend, getting a CD and maybe DVD out of it that you can put on your website for promotion and sell at your gigs? $500 is looking like a pretty darn good deal to me! I say go for it.